| d_flore |
| Im from Calgary and i am looking to get an engine swap done on my 91 300zx 2+2. Is there any garage willing to this in edmonton? I am looking for an engine other than the vg30 that is in there right now or the vg30dett. I am looking at a few options? They seem to be way to busy in calgary to get this done. Thanx! |
|
|
| MixManMash |
Let me get this straight. You don't want the VG30DE or the VG30DETT?
Well, there are options:
1. SR20DET
2. RB26DETT
Both have / can be done, but why? |
|
|
| aarrgghh |
| There's another thread in the general performance section with a little history. I suggested he post over here as well. I believe the reason given was ease of service and uniqueness. I'd agree though, a VG30DETT would probably be cheaper, better and faster to do, not to mention faster car wise at the same build level. |
|
|
| superspeed |
stick with the vg30dett its not that hard to work on i think people over exaggerate only thing i see hard would be replacing turbo, and usually requires pulling engine and i find that not bad because you can do other maintaince on it as well.
sr20det cost around the same as the vg30dett but u need custom mount, intercooler etc etc and will of course cost more then a vg30dett swap and less power
rb26dett good luck hope you have alot of money and can cut and weld.
i did the tt swap on my non turbo 2+2 and only thing i find difficult was doing timing belt other then that its just TIME consuming =\.
Go to www.twinturbo.net or 300zxclub.com they have lots of pictures on other members swap or look up the micheal smith swap video at mws motorsport. |
|
|
| MixManMash |
Autodream has done the SR20DET swap in Calgary. Really, the SR20 is not suited well to a heavy car like the Z32.
The RB26DETT wouldn't be so bad, but the cost of the motor and all the custom work wouldn't be worth it.
Put it this way, you could probably buy and mod a VG30DETT and it would be cheaper and probably put out more power than swapping in a stock RB26DETT.
Some other engine choices that I know people have done in a Z32:
1. VH45DE(TT) - Q45 4.5L V8 and then twin turboed.
The guy who did this himself said that the motor is cheap. However, he wouldn't recommend doing it if you already had a twin turbo.
2. Chevrolet LS1 - been done many times in a Z32. A lot of custom work again, but the motor / transmission is pretty cheap. Good weight savings as you are dealing with an all aluminum block.
Would I do the LS1? No, because it takes away from the Z32 was. Maybe a VH45DE(TT), at least keeping it Nissan.
Nothing wrong doing it with VG30DETT - that's the way Nissan intended it to be done and it is so well documented and relatively easy to do. |
|
|
| d_flore |
| i have also heard of the jz2 engine from toyota. Has anyone heard of this before? Besically I want a good quality engine that can run about 500 hp to the wheels. My problem is that i have heard so many things about the vg engines being bad engines. I know Z people dont want to hear that and i was really disapointed when i had heard this as well but it may not be true. I will not have the time to do this myself or the skill for that matter so I will need a garage that can do it this winter. Anyone know of a good performnace garage in edmonton that can do these kind of swaps. |
|
|
| superspeed |
quote:
Originally posted by d_flore
My problem is that i have heard so many things about the vg engines being bad engines.
hahaha i recommend u do ALOT OF READING on twinturbo.net and 300zxclub.com |
|
|
| MixManMash |
quote:
Originally posted by d_flore
i have also heard of the jz2 engine from toyota. Has anyone heard of this before? Besically I want a good quality engine that can run about 500 hp to the wheels. My problem is that i have heard so many things about the vg engines being bad engines. I know Z people dont want to hear that and i was really disapointed when i had heard this as well but it may not be true. I will not have the time to do this myself or the skill for that matter so I will need a garage that can do it this winter. Anyone know of a good performnace garage in edmonton that can do these kind of swaps.
1. Yes the 2JZ swap has been done but requires you to cut a hole in your hood for clearance, thus exposing the engine to the elements.
2. Who have you heard from that VG Engines are bad? That is the biggest BS that I have ever heard. VG engines have been in Maxima's, Pathfinders, Infiniti J30's, etc.
Sure if you start modding them and not properly tuning them or maintaining them, you are going to have problems. But surely, you would have this problem with many other cars. How many Honda B16's have blown up because of a bad tune? How many 2JZ's? How many LS1's? I have seen VG engines making all kinds of crazy power reliably. I have seen VG engines that have disintegrated because of a bad tune. But, that goes with any engine.
Anyways, it's your call for what you want to do. You have to live with it. Personally, it your car is an N/A go for the VG30DETT.
I know for a fact that Sumaru's in Edmonton does this type of work, but I personally would stay away from them after the nightmares that I have heard and personally seen.
The only place that I know of is Ericksen Nissan, but I am sure they are way too busy to take on this type of a project and it would surely cost you an arm and a leg. |
|
|
| d_flore |
quote:
Originally posted by MixManMash
1. Yes the 2JZ swap has been done but requires you to cut a hole in your hood for clearance, thus exposing the engine to the elements.
2. Who have you heard from that VG Engines are bad? That is the biggest BS that I have ever heard. VG engines have been in Maxima's, Pathfinders, Infiniti J30's, etc.
Sure if you start modding them and not properly tuning them or maintaining them, you are going to have problems. But surely, you would have this problem with many other cars. How many Honda B16's have blown up because of a bad tune? How many 2JZ's? How many LS1's? I have seen VG engines making all kinds of crazy power reliably. I have seen VG engines that have disintegrated because of a bad tune. But, that goes with any engine.
Anyways, it's your call for what you want to do. You have to live with it. Personally, it your car is an N/A go for the VG30DETT.
I know for a fact that Sumaru's in Edmonton does this type of work, but I personally would stay away from them after the nightmares that I have heard and personally seen.
The only place that I know of is Ericksen Nissan, but I am sure they are way too busy to take on this type of a project and it would surely cost you an arm and a leg.
I head heard this from mechanics who specalize in perforamnce nissans. I deffinatly would not want to get somthing done from a garge with that reputation. Thanks for the heads up. I would like to stay away from a nissan dealership for sure, they are way to pricey. Who makes the LS1 engine? i agree that any badly tuned engine is gunna go and i would ensure that everything is kept up to par. Maybe the vg isnt sounding so bad. Have you ever seen picture of what the car looks like with its hood cut. That sounds like a joke. I think I will have to go to the states for this job as things are just to busy around here.
Right now i think its beetween the LS1 Vg30dett 2JZ and the Rb26. I need to keep my tourqe up due to the weight of the car. the sr20 just does not make sense. The LS1 would be awsome for weight due to the crazy understeer i i have in my car. it diggs like crazy. i will turn and the car will go straight.
Anybody know of any good shops down there. I have heard of a few willing to do this. |
|
|
| d_flore |
| sorry you had already told me the Ls1 is chev. i would really rather stay away from that. I want the engine to be from japan. |
|
|
| aarrgghh |
| If you have understeer problems I don't think its due to the weight. I've seen several of the Z32's on the autocross circuit do extremely well when setup correctly. I couldn't keep up with Inzane before he got R's :bowdown: |
|
|
| joker |
If you have money and REALLY want to be different then go for a V8 swap. Putting another turbocharged 6 cylinder other than the VG doesnt make sense to me. Especially if you dont plan on doing much work yourself after the fact to keep it running. At least if you swap a VG in it you can still get service issues resolved at a dealership without too much hassle.
If you want torque then why on earth would you take a half litre drop in displacement with the RB? The VG is a very robust engine and can handle alot of power, Im sure it would get to a point where modding the RB would be cheaper but to hit 500 the VG is more than capable. |
|
|
| d_flore |
quote:
Originally posted by aarrgghh
If you have understeer problems I don't think its due to the weight. I've seen several of the Z32's on the autocross circuit do extremely well when setup correctly. I couldn't keep up with Inzane before he got R's :bowdown:
R's? |
|
|
| d_flore |
quote:
Originally posted by joker
If you have money and REALLY want to be different then go for a V8 swap. Putting another turbocharged 6 cylinder other than the VG doesnt make sense to me. Especially if you dont plan on doing much work yourself after the fact to keep it running. At least if you swap a VG in it you can still get service issues resolved at a dealership without too much hassle.
If you want torque then why on earth would you take a half litre drop in displacement with the RB? The VG is a very robust engine and can handle alot of power, Im sure it would get to a point where modding the RB would be cheaper but to hit 500 the VG is more than capable.
But what kind of v8 could go in that car that is a performance engine? |
|
|
| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by d_flore
My problem is that i have heard so many things about the vg engines being bad engines.
I know Z people dont want to hear that and i was really disapointed when i had heard this as well but it may not be true.
I've owned my Z32 for almost 10 years and been in touch with the Z community (online at least) even longer than that. I've never heard of the VG being a "bad engine".
Who the hell told you that? :dunno: |
|
|
| superspeed |
| i assume that "mechanic" only worked on the ones that were not taken care of which is majority of them. |
|
|
| MixManMash |
quote:
Originally posted by d_flore
But what kind of v8 could go in that car that is a performance engine?
VH45DE. Just remember that Nissan use to race VG30DETT's in IMSA back in the day. IMSA banned the VG30DETT because it was too fast. Nissan "slowed" down the car by putting a V8 in it. lol.
quote:
R's?
R Compound Rubber.
quote:
I head heard this from mechanics who specalize in perforamnce nissans.
Care to share which shop this is so I can stay the hell away from them? They obviously have no idea of what they are talking about.
Let's go over your engine options again:
1. 2JZ - good luck with the fab work. The block is so long that it makes the RB26 look easier. Plus, come on, a Toyota engine in a Nissan? It's like putting a HEMI in a Mustang. It's blasephemy and you just don't do it.
If you like having a hole in your hood for clearance, enjoy. I can't seem to find the picture of the swap that I saw with a nice permanent hold in the hood.
2. RB26 - while it's do-able, with a ton of $ and fab work, the engine provides less torque and at a much higher RPM compared to the VG30DETT. The motor is not cheap either. Plus you will have to score a transmission off of a RB25.
3. VG30DETT - relatively cheap for a motor, it's been done many times. Reliable, strong, and lots of torque. Heck, my car with only intake, downpipes, testpipes, a JWT chip made 327 hp and 356 lb-ft of torque at the rear wheels at 13 psi of boost.
Can the VG30DETT handle some serious power - sure JUN/Blitz proved it on the Bonneville Salt Flats. They still have the speed record on it (419.84 km/h).
Your call. What year is your car and why are you thinking of doing an engine swap? Don't tell me it's because one supposed Nissan Performance Shop Mechanic said that the VG is not reliable? Are you looking for more power than your N/A engine? |
|
|
| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by MixManMash
3. VG30DETT - relatively cheap for a motor, it's been done many times. Reliable, strong, and lots of torque. Heck, my car with only intake, downpipes, testpipes, a JWT chip made 327 hp and 356 lb-ft of torque at the rear wheels at 13 psi of boost.
And to add some more data...
Mine with a few more basic mods at the time made (at the wheels) 350 hp & 385 lb-ft @ ~14.5-15psi. And 371 hp & 415 lb-ft @ 17psi (w/ race gas). <-- stock internals, turbos and fuel system.
And Bill (another club member, but not on this forum) pulled similar #'s this summer at ~15psi (350rwhp-ish, IIRC). |
|
|
| ZEguy |
| Inzane, when you out it all on the table like that, the choice should be easy to him.If he still ends up making the wrong decision, its his own fault for lack of research, really. |
|
|
| MixManMash |
quote:
Originally posted by ZEguy
Inzane, when you out it all on the table like that, the choice should be easy to him.If he still ends up making the wrong decision, its his own fault for lack of research, really.
2nd that. Hey, it wouldn't be fun if everybody was the same, right?
Maybe he's just web-trolling ;) , no offence. |
|
|
| d_flore |
quote:
Originally posted by MixManMash
2nd that. Hey, it wouldn't be fun if everybody was the same, right?
Maybe he's just web-trolling ;) , no offence.
No i am really trying to do my research here. Your input is really good and you guys seem very knowledgeable and are alot of help. I appreciate it. A guy at autodream and the person who refered me there had told me that about the vg engine. |
|
|
| d_flore |
quote:
Originally posted by MixManMash
VH45DE. Just remember that Nissan use to race VG30DETT's in IMSA back in the day. IMSA banned the VG30DETT because it was too fast. Nissan "slowed" down the car by putting a V8 in it. lol.
R Compound Rubber.
Care to share which shop this is so I can stay the hell away from them? They obviously have no idea of what they are talking about.
Let's go over your engine options again:
1. 2JZ - good luck with the fab work. The block is so long that it makes the RB26 look easier. Plus, come on, a Toyota engine in a Nissan? It's like putting a HEMI in a Mustang. It's blasephemy and you just don't do it.
If you like having a hole in your hood for clearance, enjoy. I can't seem to find the picture of the swap that I saw with a nice permanent hold in the hood.
2. RB26 - while it's do-able, with a ton of $ and fab work, the engine provides less torque and at a much higher RPM compared to the VG30DETT. The motor is not cheap either. Plus you will have to score a transmission off of a RB25.
3. VG30DETT - relatively cheap for a motor, it's been done many times. Reliable, strong, and lots of torque. Heck, my car with only intake, downpipes, testpipes, a JWT chip made 327 hp and 356 lb-ft of torque at the rear wheels at 13 psi of boost.
Can the VG30DETT handle some serious power - sure JUN/Blitz proved it on the Bonneville Salt Flats. They still have the speed record on it (419.84 km/h).
Your call. What year is your car and why are you thinking of doing an engine swap? Don't tell me it's because one supposed Nissan Performance Shop Mechanic said that the VG is not reliable? Are you looking for more power than your N/A engine? [/B]
my car is a 91 2+2 canadain model. I am also running R rated tires. They deffintly helped with understeer but i think its all of the weight in the front of such a heavy car. I also launched my stock NA at 5000rpm and nothing sliped but the clutch so im not sure if the tires really solve the issue.
I a looking for more power. About 500 whp and similar tourqe
That VH45DE sounds like it could be intrestin but wouldnt I be stupid to run somthing that is not meant for perforamnce but more for towing and low end tourqe. I guess thats gearing but still the engine seems like it wouldnt be made to handle what i would be using it for. What about the engine in the 350Z. |
|
|
| Grace Too |
quote:
Originally posted by d_flore
my car is a 91 2+2 canadain model. I am also running R rated tires. They deffintly helped with understeer but i think its all of the weight in the front of such a heavy car. I also launched my stock NA at 5000rpm and nothing sliped but the clutch so im not sure if the tires really solve the issue.
I a looking for more power. About 500 whp and similar tourqe
That VH45DE sounds like it could be intrestin but wouldnt I be stupid to run somthing that is not meant for perforamnce but more for towing and low end tourqe. I guess thats gearing but still the engine seems like it wouldnt be made to handle what i would be using it for. What about the engine in the 350Z.
Dude,
The VH45DE motor is a 500hp detuned na monster from the factory. Yes theres torque but there is bhp as well. Do not use the VQ35DE, not a great motor by any stretch. You really only have a few choices; as follows:
1. Turbo your na motor. If done properly it will knock your socks off.
2. Put a twin turbo motor in your car
3. Install a RB motor. Not recomended
4. Install a Toyota motor. Really, really not recomended. Unless you like oil burning and blown head gaskets
5. Install a VK45DE or VH45DE. Also if money was no object you could turbo either one of those.
6. Install an LS1 also not recomended. Purchase the latest sport compact car mag. You'll se why.
7. Last but not least an SR20DET, again not recomended.
I hope that helps....
Cheers,
Grace Too |
|
|
| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by d_flore
I am also running R rated tires.
The "R' in R compound tires mentioned earlier refers to race compounds, as in competition tires. Not "R rated" as in a speed rating of a conventional street tire.
quote:
I a looking for more power. About 500 whp and similar tourqe
Stick with a VG30DETT. It is more than capable of achieving your goal.
quote:
What about the engine in the 350Z.
:lol: Don't even go there!! |
|
|
| MixManMash |
quote:
Originally posted by d_flore
my car is a 91 2+2 canadain model. I am also running R rated tires. They deffintly helped with understeer but i think its all of the weight in the front of such a heavy car. I also launched my stock NA at 5000rpm and nothing sliped but the clutch so im not sure if the tires really solve the issue.
I a looking for more power. About 500 whp and similar tourqe
That VH45DE sounds like it could be intrestin but wouldnt I be stupid to run somthing that is not meant for perforamnce but more for towing and low end tourqe. I guess thats gearing but still the engine seems like it wouldnt be made to handle what i would be using it for. What about the engine in the 350Z.
1. Understeer - What do you have for suspension upgrades? A set of Stillen Sway Bars will help greatly, especially since the N/A rear sway is really small compared to the TT ones. A set of Eibach's with KYB AGX would also help, short of going with SPL Coilovers.
2. What kind of R compound tires are you running? If you are drag racing, use a good set of drag radials - i.e. Mickey Thompson E/T.
3. Launching - The suspension setup on a 300ZX is really not meant for drag racing. You will get a lot of wheel hop which won't be good for your driveline. Get a real clutch - RPS or Southbend 6 puck if you are going to drag race. What did you think would happen launching a 3300 lb car at 5000 RPM on a stock clutch? Still, wheel hop is going to be a problem - the only 2 things that will help are subframe spacers / bushings and the tire tread.
4. VH45DE - what Grace Too said. This is by no means a truck engine. Where did you figure that this motor was for towing?
5. VQ35DE - the VQ35 is a compromise engine. Sure, it's got more displacement, but it isn't going to handle boost quite as well as the VG30DETT. Don't get me wrong. The VQ35DE is a good motor in stock form, but it just wasn't meant to handle boost or significantly more power. Stock internals are good for about 375 - 400 lb-ft of torque at the rear wheels on the VQ35DE. After that, you start breaking internals. Upgrade the internals and the block itself will barely handle up to 500. I have seen guys run more on VQ35DE's, but they end up replacing the block every so often. The VG30DETT stock internals can handle around the 500-550 whp / lb-ft number. Upgrade the internals and you have a lot more room.
quote:
No i am really trying to do my research here. Your input is really good and you guys seem very knowledgeable and are alot of help. I appreciate it. A guy at autodream and the person who refered me there had told me that about the vg engine.
Well, obviously the guys you were talking to really don't know that much about the VG30 and the bad experiences they heard about are probably due to a bad tune, lack of maintenance, improper work, etc. Surprised that a person at Autodream would say such a thing. I think it's Andy at Autodream who has a monster Z32 Convertible with a VG30DETT with JWT 700BB turbo's. The thing is a monster from what I've heard. Autodream has also done an SR20DET swap in a Z32. I wouldn't recommend it. The SR20DET was not meant to haul around a 3500 lb car. Autodream also swapped in a VG30DETT into an Infiniti J30. |
|
|
| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by MixManMash
Surprised that a person at Autodream would say such a thing.
I'm not, actually. They crashed the Calgary Z Club show n' shine a few years ago and were dissin' on the Z32 quite a bit. (what happened to respecting your host?)
They had some nice cars mind you (some 240SXs w/ swaps, a skyline or two, etc.). But they really seemed to have it in their minds (and in the minds of some of their customers) that the SR20DET swap in a Z32 was "the thing to do". :rolleyes: |
|
|
| MixManMash |
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
I'm not, actually. They crashed the Calgary Z Club show n' shine a few years ago and were dissin' on the Z32 quite a bit. (what happened to respecting your host?)
They had some nice cars mind you (some 240SXs w/ swaps, a skyline or two, etc.). But they really seemed to have it in their minds (and in the minds of some of their customers) that the SR20DET swap in a Z32 was "the thing to do". :rolleyes:
Really, must have been back in '05. I went to the one in '06 and missed it this year.
Maybe it's about the only motor they know how to work on, besides the RB26? I just went on their website. See how many KA24s they have for sale (lots of swaps in S13/S14s)? Maybe since they think the VG motor is crap, I can bargain them down on the one they have for sale. lol. SR20 wasn't meant for moving such a heavy car... SR20 in a S13/S14 - yeah obvious choice since the car was meant to have it, but not a Z32.
It's a pretty obvious choice to me. The VG30DETT is proven, it's reliable, it's won races, it was banned in IMSA because it was "too fast", has the Bonneville Salt Flats speed record. |
|
|
| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by MixManMash
Really, must have been back in '05. I went to the one in '06 and missed it this year.
I think it was in '04 actually, the first time they joined us at the calgary show. I didn't appreciate how they were going on and on about how their 240SXs were going to "destroy Z32s everywhere" (not an exact quote, but you get the gist). Shaun and Tim were there too I think, they might've also heard some of the crap coming out of their mouths that day....
Some of them came back again in '05, and they (or customers... hard to tell staff from their groupies) were still going on about SR20s into Z32s.
I honestly can't remember if I went down for the '06 calgary show. |
|
|
| MixManMash |
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
I think it was in '04 actually, the first time they joined us at the calgary show. I didn't appreciate how they were going on and on about how their 240SXs were going to "destroy Z32s everywhere" (not an exact quote, but you get the gist). Shaun and Tim were there too I think, they might've also heard some of the crap coming out of their mouths that day....
Some of them came back again in '05, and they (or customers... hard to tell staff from their groupies) were still going on about SR20s into Z32s.
I honestly can't remember if I went down for the '06 calgary show.
You didn't make it down for the '06 show.
Lol. Obviously, they can talk the talk, but can they walk the walk? So stupid. It's like swapping in a B18, B16 or a H22 into an NSX. Just stupid.
Lol. Since when did shops get groupies? Hilarious, reminds me of another "vendor" in Edmonton and their groupies. I'm not going to mention names. |
|
|
| d_flore |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MixManMash
[B]1. Understeer - What do you have for suspension upgrades? A set of Stillen Sway Bars will help greatly, especially since the N/A rear sway is really small compared to the TT ones. A set of Eibach's with KYB AGX would also help, short of going with SPL Coilovers.
2. What kind of R compound tires are you running? If you are drag racing, use a good set of drag radials - i.e. Mickey Thompson E/T.
3. Launching - The suspension setup on a 300ZX is really not meant for drag racing. You will get a lot of wheel hop which won't be good for your driveline. Get a real clutch - RPS or Southbend 6 puck if you are going to drag race. What did you think would happen launching a 3300 lb car at 5000 RPM on a stock clutch? Still, wheel hop is going to be a problem - the only 2 things that will help are subframe spacers / bushings and the tire tread.
4. VH45DE - what Grace Too said. This is by no means a truck engine. Where did you figure that this motor was for towing?
5. VQ35DE - the VQ35 is a compromise engine. Sure, it's got more displacement, but it isn't going to handle boost quite as well as the VG30DETT. Don't get me wrong. The VQ35DE is a good motor in stock form, but it just wasn't meant to handle boost or significantly more power. Stock internals are good for about 375 - 400 lb-ft of torque at the rear wheels on the VQ35DE. After that, you start breaking internals. Upgrade the internals and the block itself will barely handle up to 500. I have seen guys run more on VQ35DE's, but they end up replacing the block every so often. The VG30DETT stock internals can handle around the 500-550 whp / lb-ft number. Upgrade the internals and you have a lot more room.
I have nothing for suspension upgrades so far. I was planning on working on the power plant and brakes first.
Ok so it sounds like it would b stupid to use the vq out of the 350z over the VG30DETT
I knew somthing would happen when I launched my car at that. I just wanted to see what is was. My clutch has started slipping under high tourqe now lol but i knew i would be upgrading right away.
Isnt the VH45DE designed for the Q45 an SUV? I understand its an alluminum block. Do you know if it is lighter that the vg30dett.
As for the tires I have General UHP Rear-265/30ZR19 Front-225/30ZR19 |
|
|
| d_flore |
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
I'm not, actually. They crashed the Calgary Z Club show n' shine a few years ago and were dissin' on the Z32 quite a bit. (what happened to respecting your host?)
They had some nice cars mind you (some 240SXs w/ swaps, a skyline or two, etc.). But they really seemed to have it in their minds (and in the minds of some of their customers) that the SR20DET swap in a Z32 was "the thing to do". :rolleyes:
They did however tell me that it might not be a great idea to haul around such a heavy car with the sr20. I almost did it until i thought about it and realized that there was no way i would get enough tourqe from turbos in the low end to not be stressing that engine all the time. |
|
|
| MixManMash |
quote:
Originally posted by d_flore
I have nothing for suspension upgrades so far. I was planning on working on the power plant and brakes first.
Ok so it sounds like it would b stupid to use the vq out of the 350z over the VG30DETT
I knew somthing would happen when I launched my car at that. I just wanted to see what is was. My clutch has started slipping under high tourqe now lol but i knew i would be upgrading right away.
Isnt the VH45DE designed for the Q45 an SUV? I understand its an alluminum block. Do you know if it is lighter that the vg30dett.
As for the tires I have General UHP Rear-265/30ZR19 Front-225/30ZR19
Well, the suspension would be the reason for your understeer.
Yes, the VQ35DE would be stupid over the VG30DETT.
Like I mentioned, look at RPS & Southbend Clutches. www.twinturbo.net is your friend!
I think you are confusing the VH with the VK. The VH45DE was used in the Nissan President and the Q45 sedan. This was Infiniti's premier sedan back in the day. So it was definitely performance oriented in some fashion and not a truck motor. The VK45DE is based on the VQ and was/is used in the newer Q45 (2002-2006), the M45, FX45 and Nissan Fuga. I have heard guys have successfully used a VH45 motor with VK45 heads. Nissan used a form of the VH motor in IMSA in 1995 when the VG30DETT was banned. By no means is the VK45 motor a truck motor either. The VK56 is a truck motor (Titan, QX56, etc.). The VH & VK should be lighter - they are both Aluminum blocks. However, the VK has weaker internals compared to the VH, hence why people use the VH bottom end with VK heads.
The tires you have are not R compounds and are not even R rated. The R that you are thinking of is a part of the tire size - It precedes the wheel diameter in inches - which in your case is 19". Dude, 19's are way to big for a Z32. Get some 18's. |
|
|
| d_flore |
| so would it make sense to use that engine and would it be any lighter or cost effective in your opinion. At some point you mentioned that you could put twin turbos in it but its compression in 10.2:1 i had thought that would cause denotnation?? |
|
|
| d_flore |
| I have run the 19's and have had no problems so far. I am not sure i understand what the R is then i had thought that Z was the speed rating and R the compound? |
|
|
| MixManMash |
Higher compression means you run less boost. 8 psi of boost on a VH45DE would be pretty mean. There is some guy out there that has done this in his Z32 - twinturboed his VH45DE and the thing is sick.
By the time all is said and done, I don't know how much lighter a VH45DE(TT) is going to be vs. the VG30DETT.
Not sure how much a used VH goes for either. Not sure what transmission would bolt up either. I would imagine that with all the custom fab work that would have to go into this it would probably be much more cost effective to swap in a VG30DETT. All you would need to do is find a front clip of a Z32 TT and you would have all the parts you need to install it in your car, for the most part. Probably need to buy an EFI harness, TT fuel pump, TT fuel pump controller, and few other parts. |
|
|
| MixManMash |
quote:
Originally posted by d_flore
I have run the 19's and have had no problems so far. I am not sure i understand what the R is then i had thought that Z was the speed rating and R the compound?
Z is speed rating. Here is an example - 265/30ZR19. The R is used as a separator in the tire size. R19 means you have a 19" wheel diameter. Not R compound. R compound is a competition type tire.
What I meant to say about the 19" size is the following:
1. They look a bit goofy on a Z32.
2. The larger the size, the larger the mass moment of inertia. This means that the mass of the wheel is concentrated more on the outside of the wheel, resulting in slower acceleration times. This makes it harder on the clutch in drag racing applications. You essentially slow down the car more with the size / weight of the wheels. Harder on the motor to move the car, harder on the brakes to stop it.
3. The wheel size / weight will also effect the handling. You have gone beyond the size that I would recommend and it will reduce the handling characteristics of the car because of it. That understeering you are feeling isn't being helped by the 19s. You are overworking your suspension.
I shouldn't talk. I have one of the heaviest of 18" wheels on my car and it sucks for auto-x and track. But that's why I am getting a set of custom made light weight 18s for auto-x and track duty, with a set of R compound rubber to match. |
|
|
| d_flore |
quote:
Originally posted by MixManMash
Z is speed rating. Here is an example - 265/30ZR19. The R is used as a separator in the tire size. R19 means you have a 19" wheel diameter. Not R compound. R compound is a competition type tire.
What I meant to say about the 19" size is the following:
1. They look a bit goofy on a Z32.
2. The larger the size, the larger the mass moment of inertia. This means that the mass of the wheel is concentrated more on the outside of the wheel, resulting in slower acceleration times. This makes it harder on the clutch in drag racing applications. You essentially slow down the car more with the size / weight of the wheels.
3. The wheel size / weight will also effect the handling. You have gone beyond the size that I would recommend and it will reduce the handling characteristics of the car because of it. That understeering you are feeling isn't being helped by the 19s. You are overworking your suspension.
I shouldn't talk. I have one of the heaviest of 18" wheels on my car and it sucks for auto-x and track. But that's why I am getting a set of custom made light weight 18s for auto-x and track duty, with a set of R compound rubber to match.
Gotcha thanks. I got the ZR confused with the regular R on any tire. I dont think that the diameter had made much of a differnece. the percentace of my spedo when i did a gps speed on the stock vs. the others was hardly differnt. |
|
|
| d_flore |
quote:
Originally posted by MixManMash
Higher compression means you run less boost. 8 psi of boost on a VH45DE would be pretty mean. There is some guy out there that has done this in his Z32 - twinturboed his VH45DE and the thing is sick.
By the time all is said and done, I don't know how much lighter a VH45DE(TT) is going to be vs. the VG30DETT.
Not sure how much a used VH goes for either. Not sure what transmission would bolt up either. I would imagine that with all the custom fab work that would have to go into this it would probably be much more cost effective to swap in a VG30DETT. All you would need to do is find a front clip of a Z32 TT and you would have all the parts you need to install it in your car, for the most part. Probably need to buy an EFI harness, TT fuel pump, TT fuel pump controller, and few other parts.
I'll look into this engine but when all said and done with probably end up with the vg30dett. it just seems the most cost effective and sounds like the most fun to drive. What kind of hp does the Vh engine run? |
|
|
| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by MixManMash
Z is speed rating. Here is an example - 265/30ZR19. The R is used as a separator in the tire size. R19 means you have a 19" wheel diameter..
^ I believe the 'R' in this context means simply a radial tire.
But you're right it has absolutely nothing to do with whether a tire is an "R compound".
Also just to clear up something else that was said earlier in this thread that might mislead someone, a "drag radial" is not an R-compound either. R-compounds are track tires meant for maximum cornering grip. A drag radial is like a "slick" but is still street legal, basically a sticky tire meant for launching (in a straight line) at a drag strip. The two categories of tires (drag radials and/or slicks VS. R-compounds), while both technically for race applications, are not meant to be interchangeable. |
|
|
| MixManMash |
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
^ I believe the 'R' in this context means simply a radial tire.
But you're right it has absolutely nothing to do with whether a tire is an "R compound".
Also just to clear up something else that was said earlier in this thread that might mislead someone, a "drag radial" is not an R-compound either. R-compounds are track tires meant for maximum cornering grip. A drag radial is like a "slick" but is still street legal, basically a sticky tire meant for launching (in a straight line) at a drag strip. The two categories of tires (drag radials and/or slicks VS. R-compounds), while both technically for race applications, are not meant to be interchangeable.
Thanks for the clarification. Very good points made here! |
|
|
| MixManMash |
quote:
Originally posted by d_flore
Gotcha thanks. I got the ZR confused with the regular R on any tire. I dont think that the diameter had made much of a differnece. the percentace of my spedo when i did a gps speed on the stock vs. the others was hardly differnt.
That's speed. Not acceleration and handling. The overall diameter of the tire will affect speed. The weight being concentrated so far out and general mass of the wheel will affect acceleration, handling, launching, etc. |
|
|
| MixManMash |
quote:
Originally posted by d_flore
I'll look into this engine but when all said and done with probably end up with the vg30dett. it just seems the most cost effective and sounds like the most fun to drive. What kind of hp does the Vh engine run?
VH45DE specs (stock):
278 hp @ 6000 RPM
292 lb-ft @ 4000 RPM
- Forged steel crankshaft.
- Forged steel connecting rods.
- 6 Bolt main bearing caps with studs.
- Full-length main bearing bearing.
- Lightweight, floating pistons with molybdenum coating.
- Sodium-filled exhaust valves.
- Cross-flow cooling system.
- Hydraulic lash adjusters.
- Single-row silent timing chain.
- Coil-on-plug ignition system.
- Roller rocker arms for reduced friction.
- Variable Valve Timing.
- Redline of 6900 rpm.
- Compression ratio of 10.2 to 1.
- Bore of 93 mm and stroke of 82.7 mm.
Earlier (pre 1996) engines had NVCS (Nissan Valve-timing Control System) like the VG30DE / VG30DETT. |
|
|
| d_flore |
quote:
Originally posted by MixManMash
VH45DE specs (stock):
278 hp @ 6000 RPM
292 lb-ft @ 4000 RPM
- Forged steel crankshaft.
- Forged steel connecting rods.
- 6 Bolt main bearing caps with studs.
- Full-length main bearing bearing.
- Lightweight, floating pistons with molybdenum coating.
- Sodium-filled exhaust valves.
- Cross-flow cooling system.
- Hydraulic lash adjusters.
- Single-row silent timing chain.
- Coil-on-plug ignition system.
- Roller rocker arms for reduced friction.
- Variable Valve Timing.
- Redline of 6900 rpm.
- Compression ratio of 10.2 to 1.
- Bore of 93 mm and stroke of 82.7 mm.
Earlier (pre 1996) engines had NVCS (Nissan Valve-timing Control System) like the VG30DE / VG30DETT.
wikipedia? lol. Thats awsome though thanks! so what advantages would this be over the vg30dett? |
|
|
| MixManMash |
quote:
Originally posted by d_flore
wikipedia? lol. Thats awsome though thanks! so what advantages would this be over the vg30dett?
Yup. Wiki was quick and easy. There's more info out there than that. Not sure if there really is any. lol. Maybe massive V8 torque at the low RPM end. Heck, you can get that out of a VG30DETT with the right mods.
All in all, it's probably so that you can say "I have a V8 300ZX." It's more about being different. Just remember, the Z cars have always been 6 cylinders. S30 & S130 chassis were inline 6's, Z31, Z32, Z33 are all V6.
One guy who has done this said that he wouldn't bother if the car already was a TT. Since he had an N/A, he figured why not. Plus he was able to do it cost effectively since he had access to a fab shop and all the labour was his own. |
|
|
| d_flore |
| yeah probably not worth the extra cash to do the work for a bragging rights |
|
|
| MixManMash |
quote:
Originally posted by d_flore
yeah probably not worth the extra cash to do the work for a bragging rights
Yup. Plus looks like you would need a custom hood or hole for clearing the intake manifold.
Take a look here. |
|
|
| d_flore |
quote:
Originally posted by MixManMash
Yup. Plus looks like you would need a custom hood or hole for clearing the intake manifold.
Take a look here.
haha im really not into this whole having a hole in ure hood thing |
|
|
| MixManMash |
quote:
Originally posted by d_flore
haha im really not into this whole having a hole in ure hood thing
Good. Then I think you have figured out your answer. ;) |
|
|
| d_flore |
quote:
Originally posted by MixManMash
Good. Then I think you have figured out your answer. ;)
haha yeah i think I am going to go with the VG30DETT? so to clarify... this is a RELIABLE and EFFICIENT engine according to the majority that can handle 500 WHP and 500 lbs of torque on stock internals without an issue.
Is there any way to make this a six speed? |
|
|
| d_flore |
| and do would i use the same tranny i have right now or is the TT one differnt? |
|
|
| superspeed |
quote:
Originally posted by d_flore
Is there any way to make this a six speed?
yes u can hks makes one 10g's if i recall and use the TT tranny dont use the na unless u want to grind the starter housing a bit so the tt flywheel will clear it. |
|
|
| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by d_flore
Is there any way to make this a six speed?
LOL... how did I know that question was coming. :lol:
Trust me, the stock 5-speed TT tranny will be all you will need. |
|
|
| ~30oZ~ |
These are ALL great questions man, post them on twinturbo.net they will get you some sweet answers and I guarantee you will make up your mind after you get feed back from them....:D
Stick to the VG and stick to the 5 speed..all will be good. |
|
|
| d_flore |
| awsome feedback thanx guys |
|
|
| MixManMash |
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
LOL... how did I know that question was coming. :lol:
Trust me, the stock 5-speed TT tranny will be all you will need.
To give you a bit more detail on Inzane's point, the gear ratio's of the TT 5 speed transmission are well matched to the motor.
If you go with the HKS transmission, the top 6th gear will rev higher than the 5th gear in the TT transmission, ever so slightly. This means reduced top speed. The other problem is that they have packed the gears in much tighter, so it will feel like you never stop shifting. Personally, it gets annoying.
Samething with the G35/350Z 6 speed transmission. Again, it feels like you don't ever stop shifting (driven a few). However, the ratio's do work well in your favour on a tight auto-x (first hand experience - thanks Jeff!).
My plan for overcoming this with my 5 speed is to get my motor to rev up faster, but that requires some serious $$$$. Eventually...
In your case, you should be fine as you have a N/A differential in your car which is geared to 4.08. The stock TT differential is 3.69. |
|
|
| aarrgghh |
Oddly enough I didn't feel I was shifting all the time at Stratotech, and I typically run the auto-x's totally in second (after the start). Although, that said I was right between ratios on 2nd to 3rd in the tighter part of Stratotech, 2nd needed to be a little taller or 3rd a little shorter for that part of the track. Even with the 6 speed.
On the auto-X, hey you're welcome, it was good to hear how it sounded and see how much body roll it had. Helped prioritize mods :D. |
|
|
| MixManMash |
quote:
Originally posted by aarrgghh
Oddly enough I didn't feel I was shifting all the time at Stratotech, and I typically run the auto-x's totally in second (after the start). Although, that said I was right between ratios on 2nd to 3rd in the tighter part of Stratotech, 2nd needed to be a little taller or 3rd a little shorter for that part of the track. Even with the 6 speed.
On the auto-X, hey you're welcome, it was good to hear how it sounded and see how much body roll it had. Helped prioritize mods :D.
Yeah, I was mostly talking about driving on the streets / traffic, etc. In California, it was painful driving my brother-in-laws G35 coupe.
Suspension mods on the way? Or R compounds? |
|
|
| aarrgghh |
| Stoptechs. I melted and cracked my back brake pads at Stratotech. After watching you drive it and your thoughts, and the above, I've decided to put off the suspension until the brakes and R-compounds are done. I know they are not going to do much for me at the auto-x, but I can't be replacing my back pads every time I hit a road course. We'll see if I can get away with R's sometime this summer (Wife acceptance factor wise). |
|
|
| d_flore |
| so for those who have done the VG30DE to VG30DETT swap in the past, is anybody interested in making some money? |
|
|
| d_flore |
| or does anybody know of a garage anywhere within a 500 km radius of calgary who would be good to do this with? |
|
|
| MixManMash |
Hmm. It's a little far, but I wonder if Ztune in Vancouver would be up to the challenge?
I would be interested in taking up a project like this, but I am so busy these days (between work, my own car project and helping others in my local area with their cars) that you would be waiting for quite sometime.
Check Alvin Automotive in Calgary. They do a lot of Nissan work. I haven't heard a bad thing about them. Not sure if this is a project they would get into though. |
|
|
| d_flore |
quote:
Originally posted by MixManMash
Hmm. It's a little far, but I wonder if Ztune in Vancouver would be up to the challenge?
I would be interested in taking up a project like this, but I am so busy these days (between work, my own car project and helping others in my local area with their cars) that you would be waiting for quite sometime.
Check Alvin Automotive in Calgary. They do a lot of Nissan work. I haven't heard a bad thing about them. Not sure if this is a project they would get into though.
iv already tried them they are busy for about a year |
|
|
| d_flore |
| vancouver does sound a little far but it might be the only option. i was thinking of some shops in the states but i have no idea about any of the shops down there |
|
|
| MixManMash |
| One shop I can think of is Specialty-Z in Woodland Hills California. Greg is a super guy to deal with, but I am sure he is backed up a ton on projects. |
|
|
| mike300zxt |
quote:
Originally posted by MixManMash
Hmm. It's a little far, but I wonder if Ztune in Vancouver would be up to the challenge?
hehe...of course, we're always up for it! We just finished one NA/TT swap, we're doing 2 TT engine builds right now, and we'll be starting another NA/TT swap shortly...just looking for a good clip!!
We even did a custom engine build on this one, and it's running our new Ztune 500Z turbo kit, so we're looking forward to doing a dyno on it once it's broken in! |
|
|
| MixManMash |
quote:
Originally posted by mike300zxt
hehe...of course, we're always up for it! We just finished one NA/TT swap, we're doing 2 TT engine builds right now, and we'll be starting another NA/TT swap shortly...just looking for a good clip!!
We even did a custom engine build on this one, and it's running our new Ztune 500Z turbo kit, so we're looking forward to doing a dyno on it once it's broken in!
Very cool. Let me know if you come across and good TT longblock cores! I would like to get my hands on one.
What's the details of the 500Z turbo kit? |
|
|
| mike300zxt |
quote:
Originally posted by MixManMash
Very cool. Let me know if you come across and good TT longblock cores! I would like to get my hands on one.
What's the details of the 500Z turbo kit?
Will keep any eye out for a long block core...we only have one right now for shop use, and need one more too.
The Ztune 500Z turbos are very similar to the JWT Sport 500s, but we have them built locally. They are a stock hybrid like the Sport 500, with machined housings and larger wheels. They're a direct bolt in, and use brand new cartridges and wheels. I wasn't totally happy with the amount of play in JWTs cartridges, and a lot of the castings were cracked, so we decided to do up our own sets.
Some more details of the kits can be found on 604Z:
http://604z.com/php-bin/index.php?s...286&hl=500z |
|
|
|
