| ChromeDragon |
So can I safely assume that you guys have all seen the Ralph/Pie incident from down in Calgary? If so, what do you think about it? I'm pretty disgusted with the way that Ralph is brushing off the attack as youthful ignorance/idiocy. How they never mention what these young men were protesting, we never hear their side of the story. People do these sorts of things when they become frustrated that the politicians no longer listen to the people. The only way for them to be seen is to do something drastic, and as you can see here, the media doesn't give a shit about what they were protesting.
I wish that they'd filled that pie with something a little more drastic.
Chromey |
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| SlowAzzPorsche911T |
quote:
Originally posted by ChromeDragon@Jul 8 2003, 11:29 AM
So can I safely assume that you guys have all seen the Ralph/Pie incident from down in Calgary? If so, what do you think about it? I'm pretty disgusted with the way that Ralph is brushing off the attack as youthful ignorance/idiocy. How they never mention what these young men were protesting, we never hear their side of the story. People do these sorts of things when they become frustrated that the politicians no longer listen to the people. The only way for them to be seen is to do something drastic, and as you can see here, the media doesn't give a shit about what they were protesting.
I wish that they'd filled that pie with something a little more drastic.
Chromey
Chretien got pied and the guy got 8 months (or less?) in minimum.. a lil much if you ask me |
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| redbaron303 |
I'll be stepping on my own tongue....
but Chretien is a decrepid old asshole that should have been outta power WAY LONG AGO!!!! End of story on that, we need fresh blood at that level!
I personally think Ralp Klien has done a decent job and I would vote for him (if I have a chance to next time)! I may not agree with everything he's said or done, but I feel he's done his job well... (here comes the flames...;))
The one thing on either case that pisses me off, no matter how much you may dislike or hate a politician, the best way to get em outta there and get your point across is vote in somebody else!
Throwing a pie at them and showing that much disrespect... those people should be shot! Or at least jailed and heavily fined! When shit like that happens it makes our gov'ts look like a joke and how do you expect the rest of the world of politics to take us seriously if some f@cker is able to get that close firstly and toss up a pie in our politicians faces secondly!!!!
In some countries a person who assaulted a public official like Klien/Chretien would have been shot, hung, whatever... here it's like "oh don't do that again, okay???" BS!!! They need some better rules to help people show the respect (artificial respect) these politicians deserve!!!
And one other thing, if you don't like the job they're doing 1) vote for someone else, 2) get involved and take measures into your own hands and start collecting votes!!!! |
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| TylerH |
| Maybe the media didn't talk about the cause to discourage what they did and force them to get word out the old (and very slow) fashioned way (flyers, signed petitions, etc) :dunno: |
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| Casanova |
| politicians are liars. they deserve an annual ass beating. ralph is decent but hes all about the money.. business.. hardly any social programs... hes somewhat of an elitest....because of this you see Albertas healthcare go privatized or just down the drain in general...and you see education on all levels that are suffering...the raising of post secondary tuition...less teachers more students per class.....more forprofit schools aka ripoffs such as CDI College....which also fuels unemployment and welfare because schools are churning out ill prepared workers with HUGE student loan debts that are unable to pay for these loans out of the piddly wage they earn... |
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| Casanova |
| also i respect people who demand respect. his title is Honorable Ralph Klein. pfffft.. .i saw him getting dragged out of Bacarrat piss drunk....then he shows up drunk to a homeless shelter bitching out bums...and the thing that he refuses to accept is that 98% of edmontons homeless have mental problems therefore making them unemployable and sick....both him and Bill Smith refuse to acknowledge that and just wish to sweep them under the rug instead of solving the problem... which AGAIN comes back to their lack of attention to social programs |
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| redbaron303 |
I'm going to seem naive or ignorant here.... BUT
If you want socialism move to sweden, they have really good social welfare system!
I'm a capitalist and am not a fan of social services! I do hate the fact that I have to pay for school, but at least that way I'm there w/ either A) rich kids on parents money B-) ppl like me who want to go somewhere in life and have drive...
And communism failed in a few places round the world....
Sorry, coming from where I come from things like these just don't seem in place to me, and when I get jacked up taxes to help pay for someone elses misery I get pod... Maybe one day we'll be able to accomodate both sides... |
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| 1mns13 |
| without business, and profit motive, no services exist. I prefer to pay for health care than get in line for "free" care. ralph klein doesn't bother me. As for tuition costs, learn about opportunity cost. |
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| redbaron303 |
What do you mean about opportunity costs in that sense Jared????
I'm taking the opportunity at cost :D
and I like your statement! |
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| sidewinder |
quote:
Originally posted by redbaron303@Jul 8 2003, 08:48 PM
I'm going to seem naive or ignorant here.... BUT
If you want socialism move to sweden, they have really good social welfare system!
I'm a capitalist and am not a fan of social services! I do hate the fact that I have to pay for school, but at least that way I'm there w/ either A) rich kids on parents money B) ppl like me who want to go somewhere in life and have drive...
And communism failed in a few places round the world....
Sorry, coming from where I come from things like these just don't seem in place to me, and when I get jacked up taxes to help pay for someone elses misery I get pod... Maybe one day we'll be able to accomodate both sides...
Before I start my rant let my say that I am very "capitalistic".
A few points for you to consider:
Canada is a Social Democracy. We're not a complete welfare state, but we do take care of our own.
Secondly, capitalism flourishes in Canada. In fact the argument can be made that the US is less capitalistic than us. Want proof? The beef ban can be considered a protectionist policy in favour of US beef suppliers (very un-capitalistic). Ever heard of the softwood lumber dispute? (more US protectionism). And despite tariffs against Canadian softwood, our softwood industry was quick to adapt (the hallmark of capitalism).
You also talk about paying for school. While we do have to pay tuition, it is still government subsidized to some degree. In the US tuition can be up to 30,000 US dollars. Also, there is nothing cool about going to school with only rich kids. This breeds an elitist system. The *former* British empire operated like that and look where it got them. And what's to say that disadvantaged kids aren’t going anywhere or are unmotivated? Some of the most successful people in the world today came from impoverished backgrounds. You need people from all walks of life to keep ingenuity going.
Also, communism failed because of human implementation. It looks very good on paper but human nature has a way of mucking things up..
Anyways let me just say that its possible to be a successful capitalistic nation without sacrificing quality of life and I think Canada, while not perfect, is a good example of this. |
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| redbaron303 |
quote:
Originally posted by sidewinder@Jul 8 2003, 10:08 PM
Anyways let me just say that its possible to be a successful capitalistic nation without sacrificing quality of life and I think Canada, while not perfect, is a good example of this.
Your points are excellent! Your right, I feel Canada can be a strong capitalist nation b/c we are not as protectionist/self righteous as the US amonst other reasons such as those you stated.
My statement from before just came from my background. I've never known a hardlife or it's rigours... I can't say that I never spent many years at country clubs, driving around in fancy cars, wearing nice clothing but rather living an impovershed(sp?) life... Once upon a time my parents w/ money paid for my lifestyle! So for me to say that social welfare programs are a waste, and medicare should be privatized, I have my reasons good or not!
I really don't feel though, that in a Western Society like ours we should be so ready to donate ALL of our money to less fortunate. Survival of the fittest is a good policy as well, IMO... either you make it or you don't! There is ample opportunity for most ppl to make something of themselves! I personally think that if ppl are expecting handouts then they are in the wrong place, as I sincerlly believe that though there are ppl who need handouts too many people take advantage of this and cost the rest of us our hard earned money!!!
(putting on flame suit...) |
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| ChromeDragon |
You're entitled to your opinion Chris, no matter how wrong it may be.
Your comment about it being better that you're only in school with other rich kids such as yourself. So you actually believe that these people that have had a harder life than yourself and are now trying to elevate their status, should not be allowed to do so? In that case, I say f@ck you. Everyone should have the right to education, health care and all freedoms associated with a free democratic society. Over capitalism causes many of the huge problems in this world (ie. pollution, global warming, resource scarcity, child labor, slavery).
The reason for a government's involvement in the economy is to do only one thing, address scarcity. Scarcity of resources, educated workforce, trading partners, etc. I believe wholeheartedly in personal initiative, but the people who fall on hard times should not just be neglected. I love that Canada supports all of it's citizens. If you truly believe in survival of the fittest, move to the states. You'll quickly realize how nice it is to have a government that cares about more than money!
Matt |
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| redbaron303 |
quote:
Originally posted by redbaron303@Jul 8 2003, 08:48 PM
I'm a capitalist and am not a fan of social services! I do hate the fact that I have to pay for school, but at least that way I'm there w/ either A) rich kids on parents money B-) ppl like me who want to go somewhere in life and have drive...
I didn't notice it until I started getting flammed about being rich and having ppl who are rich only going to school.... B) was supposed to be B ) but I guess if the bracket is to close to the B it becomes an emoticon... thus that blended my statement making it look like something that it wasn't supposed to be!
I meant there are two options for ppl in school... they're either from rich families, or like me trying to tough it out and get through there on our own! :) Basically, education should not be limited to the rich, but no matter how you look at it, it will if ppl are not willing to take a student loan and possibly live years in debt for going to school to make something of themselves! Everyone should do what it takes to get through a post. sec education! |
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| redbaron303 |
quote:
Originally posted by ChromeDragon@Jul 8 2003, 10:41 PM
If you truly believe in survival of the fittest, move to the states. You'll quickly realize how nice it is to have a government that cares about more than money!
Fair enough! It's not that i have a true problem with having programs to help the needy or whatever... its that I have a problem with the gov't taking so much of my money, my parents money, other ppls money to do it! We work hard for our money, so why should we be penalized for those who aren't, even the few that can't help their situation! I know this comment is rude/ignorant/etc and ppl will probably think bad of me, but why do I want to GIVE my money away to the poor when I've had to work my ass off for it??? (even if it is through taxes that it's taken)! If ppl are taxed too much to fun such social care programs, they'll take their business to another country b/c business becomes to expensive here. How can you expect big business to come here and open up shop to employ our ppl only to get severly taxed, which will turn them away causing a loss of possible employment for those needing it/wanting it!? I doubt it happens that much, but it is possible!
Slave labour, child labour, and such are not a good thing.... I wonder how much it means to those kids and their families that they're getting something versus nothing at all no matter how wrong it is for allowing/forcing them to work for peanuts and in bad conditions... In the end they shouldn't be doing what they're doing for what they get, I guess that's the advantage of living in a place like we do!
In the end, there's give and take.... I guess if I was that moody w/ the whole situation I'd move somewhere else! I like my country enough though to stay here and enjoy life, for now! |
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| ChromeDragon |
quote:
Originally posted by redbaron303@Jul 8 2003, 10:49 PM
quote:
Originally posted by redbaron303@Jul 8 2003, 08:48 PM
I'm a capitalist and am not a fan of social services! I do hate the fact that I have to pay for school, but at least that way I'm there w/ either A) rich kids on parents money B-) ppl like me who want to go somewhere in life and have drive...
I didn't notice it until I started getting flammed about being rich and having ppl who are rich only going to school.... B) was supposed to be B ) but I guess if the bracket is to close to the B it becomes an emoticon... thus that blended my statement making it look like something that it wasn't supposed to be!
I meant there are two options for ppl in school... they're either from rich families, or like me trying to tough it out and get through there on our own! :) Basically, education should not be limited to the rich, but no matter how you look at it, it will if ppl are not willing to take a student loan and possibly live years in debt for going to school to make something of themselves! Everyone should do what it takes to get through a post. sec education!
This I agree with Chris, but everyone should have that right.
I myself have paid for my college in the past, and I'm saving money for University in the future, but I'm paying my way, I don't expect any handouts. I am, however; extremely grateful for the massive portion of tuition costs that the government does handle for my schooling(as I'm sure you are also). Are you aware that Ralph Klein would much prefer to see you paying the $40,000+ that it actually costs for you to attend post secondary education each year?
Chromey |
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| redbaron303 |
Trust you and me Matt.... Like I said... I like my country/province and there are certain reasons I'm here now and not really bitching that much :) (on a side note, I know what it's like to pay for school... I have been doing that so far!)
As a bonus, in the paper today, I saw the gov't is looking at capping insurance rates! :) |
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| ChromeDragon |
Ok this is getting a little off topic now(although can you ever be off topic when speaking about government policy?).
As for these young men being charged, I agree with a fine possibly, but jail time? That's ridiculous, but Ralph will make an example of them and rub it in that our free speech doesn't mean shit when the government won't listen. If these guys do get jail time, I for one will join in a protest against it.
Chromey |
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| ChromeDragon |
quote:
Originally posted by redbaron303@Jul 8 2003, 11:01 PM
As a bonus, in the paper today, I saw the gov't is looking at capping insurance rates! :)
Sadly though Chris, they are doing this with alterior motives. If people aren't driving/insuring their vehicles they can not charge them licensing fees, gas taxes, insurance taxes, etc. Therefore, by capping the insurance rates, they keep people driving, and all that big money coming in(not to mention all the photo radar money!).
Chromey |
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| redbaron303 |
quote:
Originally posted by ChromeDragon@Jul 8 2003, 11:05 PM
quote:
Originally posted by redbaron303@Jul 8 2003, 11:01 PM
As a bonus, in the paper today, I saw the gov't is looking at capping insurance rates! :)
Sadly though Chris, they are doing this with alterior motives. If people aren't driving/insuring their vehicles they can not charge them licensing fees, gas taxes, insurance taxes, etc. Therefore, by capping the insurance rates, they keep people driving, and all that big money coming in(not to mention all the photo radar money!).
Chromey
Doesn't that mean I'll be seeing cheap insurance, and most everythign else will stay the same??? Maybe dmv fees will jump just a little, but that's something I can handle so I don't have to pay what i pay for insurance...
And I hope klein Makes and example outta those buggars!!!! back to the topic! |
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| Casanova |
you guys all have good points.......i think ralph klein is more elitest and capitalistic than other provinces....i dont condone freeloaders on our social programs but there are many legitimate reasons to have social programs with limitations and balance.... notice how everything in this province is all of a sudden being turned over to "for profit" organizations? health care and education to name two. Why do you think Ralphie has good rapport with the US? MONEY...he has reign over quality resources, power, gas,oil etc and is willing to run his province like the US.
bleh. |
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| SlowAzzPorsche911T |
quote:
Originally posted by ChromeDragon@Jul 8 2003, 11:05 PM
quote:
Originally posted by redbaron303@Jul 8 2003, 11:01 PM
As a bonus, in the paper today, I saw the gov't is looking at capping insurance rates! :)
Sadly though Chris, they are doing this with alterior motives. If people aren't driving/insuring their vehicles they can not charge them licensing fees, gas taxes, insurance taxes, etc. Therefore, by capping the insurance rates, they keep people driving, and all that big money coming in(not to mention all the photo radar money!).
Chromey
ya but capping it at what... and an overall cap or for specific groups and/or conditions? |
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| ChromeDragon |
quote:
Originally posted by SlowAzzPorsche911T@Jul 9 2003, 03:21 PM
quote:
Originally posted by ChromeDragon@Jul 8 2003, 11:05 PM
quote:
Originally posted by redbaron303@Jul 8 2003, 11:01 PM
As a bonus, in the paper today, I saw the gov't is looking at capping insurance rates! :)
Sadly though Chris, they are doing this with alterior motives. If people aren't driving/insuring their vehicles they can not charge them licensing fees, gas taxes, insurance taxes, etc. Therefore, by capping the insurance rates, they keep people driving, and all that big money coming in(not to mention all the photo radar money!).
Chromey
ya but capping it at what... and an overall cap or for specific groups and/or conditions?
Matt, they'll cap it wherever they'll make the most money on taxes without people parking their cars and bussing it. Who knows where that is.....my guess is that they have a shitload of people trying to find out, don't be surprised if you get a phone call in the next couple weeks asking you what number is too high for you to pay insurance at.
Chromey |
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| redbaron303 |
| Frig, anything less than what I'm paying now is not too high! ANything over, and my vote goes somewhere else (depending on what the competition has to offer...) |
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| REFLUX |
quote:
Originally posted by ChromeDragon@Jul 8 2003, 11:02 PM
Ok this is getting a little off topic now
thanks for bringing it up :)
stay on topic guys
--Terry |
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