| aarrgghh |
Just a quick note to let you all know that I've arranged a tour/tech session for Wed the 20th at 6:00pm. This will be mostly a tour of the laboratory and Q&A on oil analysis with the lab manager/expert. Details on Fluidlife can be found here www.fluidlife.com.
The address is 9321 - 48 St. Edmonton.
After the session we can all head over to the local BP's for wings or something :beer: .
Please RSVP by emailing me at zcar@fluidlife.com. |
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| Grace Too |
Crap, I would love to go but I have Citadel tickets. Crap, crap... Darn maybe next time.
Cheers,
GT |
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| vorpalz |
I'm down. Is beer one of the supplied fluids? :p
Regards, |
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| Inzane |
Put me down as a maybe Jeff.
If I go, I've got a dilemma.
Either I go straight there right after work (which is convenient right now due to my proximity, since I'm out at the Petro Canada site these days) but I'd likely have to duck out before wings, etc. (which kinda sucks because that's probably one of the highlights of the evening. :) ).
OR I go home first (to let the dog out, etc.) then come back into the city and would probably be late for the event.
Any chance you can move the start time back to say 7pm, instead of six? |
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| aarrgghh |
| If we think that would work better for everyone I don't see why not. I'll have to check with the tour guide though. |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by aarrgghh
If we think that would work better for everyone I don't see why not. I'll have to check with the tour guide though.
Don't change it just for me. Unless others are interested, don't bother. |
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| aarrgghh |
| Just a reminder, this is tonight at 6:00pm. Jason, you may want to show up at 7 anyway. We'll probably still be here and I can give you the quick tour before we head out for eats. |
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| Inzane |
In case I forgot to mention Jeff, thanks for hosting this event. :thumbup:
If we do something like this again perhaps we should invite some other clubs to join us, since numbers don't seem to be our strong point. :geezuz: (d'oh!) |
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| vorpalz |
I dunno, based on the noise in the lab and Cyril's soft-spoken delivery, more people wouldn't have been able to hear the tour, plus it would have been crowded. I liked the small group, it was informal and we asked lots of questions.
I also would like to give thanks to Jeff and Cyril for the tour, it was pretty cool just what they can figure out from oil samples. Don't think I'll be switching from Mobil1 anytime soon
:D
Regards, |
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| aarrgghh |
Sorry about Cyril being quiet, he seemed a little off form that night.
Out of curiosity what did you get out of the session that made you decided not to run mobil 1? After working here for years and discussing oils with Cyril for years, its what I run. |
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| Inzane |
Jeff, he said:
"Don't think I'll be switching from Mobil1 anytime soon" |
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| vorpalz |
^^^^^ yup ^^^^^
fewest additives of all the synthetics, can usually find it on sale, seems to hold up as advertised.
Regards, |
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| aarrgghh |
| Whoops, I guess I go to the back of the reading comprehension class. Duh! :banghead: |
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| mike300zxt |
Hey Jeff, I've been doing a little research on oils for the past few months, and have been talking to a lot of engine builders that recommend Royal Purple over Mobile1 for wear protection, especially in high revving or turbo-charged engines.
I came across this test by an Australian car magazine that showed that RP and Penrite held up much better to heat/pressure than Mobile1 or even Motul did. I know this is only one of many measurements of the quality of an oil, but it is a very important one for performance engines, especially for those of us with turbo engines where the bearings are subjected to extreme pressures.
I would be very curious to hear any insite that you and Cyril could share on the results of this test:
http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil%20Tests.pdf |
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| MixManMash |
| I remember reading that a while ago. Interesting info. Too bad they don't cover Amsoil in their test. I've been running Amsoil 10W30 in my Z32 ever since I've owned it. |
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| aarrgghh |
Now that I'm back I'll look into that report when I get some time. On the whole though the best way to determine is to run the two oils under comparision on the exact same engine under the same driving conditions and test at least four oil change intervals on each at the same lab. Scientific method and all that.
I'm going to the Mobil 1 0W40 for my next change as I've heard good things about it and as a general rule as you increase the at temp viscosity the wear tends to go down (and fuel use goes up). The limiting factor is typically starting temp so Mike if you're concerned about modified turbo cars use a 10W40 (or even 15W50 if they are tracked hard on hot days) if they are only summer driven.
The main reason I selected the Mobil 1 over the Castrol and Asmoil group four synthetics is simply a mater of availibility (plus I work down the street from the Esso oil distribution center). |
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| aarrgghh |
Ok, where to start. I don't want to start a major flame war over this subject but will attempt to get through and simplify a lot of stuff to get to the point. I've had a quick discussion with our oil analysis and lubrication fundamentals head trainer to verify I've got the right track.
The (very nicely written and presented) report uses the Timken Load Test , which is now specified by ASTM D2509. This test is "used widely for specification purposes and is used to differentiate between greases having low, medium, or high levels of extreme pressure characteristics. The results may not correlate with results from service." (ASTM D2509 )
I'm sure the people conducting the tests performed the tests and accurately described what the test results were. However, this test is designed to check for an oil additive not found in engine oils (typically). EP or extreme pressure additives are used in greases and gear oils to deal with the point load forces generated where gear teeth and rolling bearing (ball, roller, etc) elements make metal to metal contact to transfer force. On these types of contact the surface areas designed to be in contact are very small and typically slide or roll past each other. These conditions are not typically present in an engine as the hydrodynamic bearings used (think crank bearings) are designed to maximize smooth surface contact area, and therefore EP additives are not needed and are not used in favor of anti-wear, corrosion inhibitors, and friction modifiers. EP additives typically don't mix well with those and those provide more useful properties to an engine oil. EP additives have been known to accelerate corrosion, especially copper found in oil coolers and brass parts.
Basically this is like having an eye test to check your hearing. The data is valid but not relevant to the question at hand. In fact, I'd probably stay away from any engine oil that performed very well on this test. This doesn't end up doing 'long term wear in a short period of time' as this places the system into a mode that simply isn't present in the real world application. I believe the correct methodology would be more along the lines of a engine dyno with a full flow small micron filter that is weighed before and after a controlled engine load test.
Modifications of the Timken test rig have been used by people selling after market oil additives (like slick 50, duralube) to demonstrate the 'advantages' of additives like EP. I've seen this in person at the old exhibition grounds and in person the demonstration looks good and convinces many people who don't have the knowledge that this is a good idea when it isn't. |
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| Inzane |
| Thanks for the good info Jeff. :thumbup: |
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| vorpalz |
OK, Mr Oil Guy, can you interpret this for me (from my results from 2008/03/07):
Visc. 40C Cst Visc. 100C Cst
New Oil: 61.0 10.10
2008/03/07 57.4R 9.28R
The viscosity breakdown was 'Reportable'. Just how nasty is this result? The oil was changed out from last year and over winter storage ~ 6000 KM
Welcome back from Hawaii.... :cool:
Regards, |
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| Inzane |
| Doesn't look too bad to me, and that's actually better than the viscosity result I got on the Sentra recently. (but in my case I've been using a mix of Amsoil and Mobil 1 over the last few change intervals). |
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| aarrgghh |
quote:
Originally posted by vorpalz
OK, Mr Oil Guy, can you interpret this for me (from my results from 2008/03/07):
Visc. 40C Cst Visc. 100C Cst
New Oil: 61.0 10.10
2008/03/07 57.4R 9.28R
The viscosity breakdown was 'Reportable'. Just how nasty is this result? The oil was changed out from last year and over winter storage ~ 6000 KM
Welcome back from Hawaii.... :cool:
Regards,
Well the lower limits for a 10W30 at 100C is 9.3 so your just a slight hair under. If I understand you correctly this oil was sitting all winter with most of the kms from last summer? Have you driven it in winter?
It's not uncommon to have a trace of fuel in a car gas engine, especially if it doesn't see much highway driving and I'd probably call it normal (you need the long time periods of at temp operation to allow the pcv valve to empty the crank of vapor from the rich starts).
I'd simply see what it looks like at your next change. If its still the same with consistent normal driving then I'd start to consider maybe changing a little earlier (say at 5000).
We can also pull a sample at any time without and oil change to check for shear. My visc on the Mobil 1 5W30 is typically in the 9.6 to 9.9 range, but thats at 3000-4000 km . |
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| vorpalz |
quote:
Originally posted by aarrgghh
Well the lower limits for a 10W30 at 100C is 9.3 so your just a slight hair under. If I understand you correctly this oil was sitting all winter with most of the kms from last summer? Have you driven it in winter?
Correct. I put it away last Nov. and didn't change oil from mid-summer '07. Pulled it out at the beginning of March and changed oil.
quote:
I'd simply see what it looks like at your next change. If its still the same with consistent normal driving then I'd start to consider maybe changing a little earlier (say at 5000).
That 5000 km is coming up fast with my recent road trip and current daily driving. Most of it highway miles from the trip, comparison will be interesting. Will sample again early April.
Regards, |
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| aarrgghh |
| The other thing you may want to consider if you're only summer driving the car is a 10W40 or 0W40 oil. You'll lose a little on what fuel economy you have and gain on less wear on the engine. |
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