| ZEguy |
Hey guys, Albert again.
I havent been around for a bit, missed out on some great deals and events while i was gone, boo.Ive been busy working and stripping my car out.Interior is all gone(except dash), but the engine is still in it (N/A FTL)
I just thought i would put up what im doing to see if there is any support/good info anyone has to offer me at this point.Aswell as good entertainment because i know i love keeping track of rebuilds!
I am at the point where i have the money to purchase the engine.I am debating whether or not to order just the engine BARE, or the engine with stock turbos and IC.I know upgrading the turbos on this car is huge, but just as costly as the cost of the engine itself, if not more =P.What about rebuilding the stock turbos?Cheaper power effective alterntavie to buying new turbos?Anyway to make the stockers ball bearing?
I am collaberating with Randy (superspeed) about us two ripping out my engine together.If anyone wants to get down and dirty with us(even if its just for a couple of hours once or twice) your expertise and experience is welcome and appreciated.God knows there will be beer and im buying supper.I'm not working right now so my hours are flexible and ill be working on it pretty much whenever i/you can/want.
Either way, im looking for a manual on how to install, or possibly dig into the engine itself cleaning and replacing gaskets when im bored and cant go further in the project for whatever reason.
So, my car is sitting in my garage, engine still in and running, no interior, and no place for me to work on it.Any recommendations where i can put my car to work on it? after i find a place the project will be underway.Ill be taking pictures and keeping updates in this thread.Pictures of the car in its current hurtin bare state will be up asap so you guys know what im workin with.Excited!Thanks guys. |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by ZEguy
I am debating whether or not to order just the engine BARE, or the engine with stock turbos and IC.
For your situation I'd recommend buying a full front clip. That way you'll have all or most of the parts you'd need to swap everything over. It'll take you much longer if you had to source or fab all the extra stuff individually (eg. like the IC plumbing).
quote:
What about rebuilding the stock turbos?
No.
quote:
Anyway to make the stockers ball bearing?
No.
If I were you, I'd focus on the "conversion" first. Get your car back into a running state as a stock "twin turbo" Z. Work out the bugs, get it tuned properly, etc. THEN after you've had a chance to look at what you've spent to that point and what your further goals are, then start researching some UPgrades.
quote:
im looking for a manual on how to install,
You should be able to still buy a factory service manual from a dealership for some model years. 1990 manuals are long gone, but some of the intermediate years should still be around in the Canadian parts system.
Also, www.twinturbo.net is THE definitive 300ZX (Z32) website. Tonnes of technical write-ups, including engine R&R. |
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| MixManMash |
I'd like to add some points to what Inzane said.
I would recommend that when you do get a full front clip (assuming compression is fine), consider doing a few preventative maintenance things with the motor out:
1. 120K service (timing belt, water pump, etc.)
2. Clutch (obvious)
3. Check out the condition of the turbo's that come with the motor. If they are shot, consider putting a little money here for replacements. If you can afford it, consider upgrading to Sport 500s (from JWT or Ztune has an equivalent package).
4. Replace the knock sensor. You can almost guarantee that it is shot.
5. Do the install right - use a TT fuel pump, TT fuel pump control, TT EFI harness.
Some good upgrades to consider with the motor out during the swap are as follows (sorted from cheaper to more expensive):
1. Pull the plenum off and delete the throttle body water jacket lines.
2. EGR delete.
3. Replace as much vacuum hose as you can with silicone hoses.
Now the more expensive items:
1. JWT ECU upgrade.
2. Mike Smith Manifolds (requires EGR delete)
3. Turbo's if the ones on your car are shot. Consider JWT Sport 500s or JWT Sport 530s. Limit your boost with a turbo upgrade to the waste gate setting (12 psi on 500s, 10 psi on 530bbs) as you will max out your stock injectors.
4. Exhaust - Specialty Z Expansion Down Pipes, 3" test pipes, full 3" cat back.
5. Skies the limit - how much and what do you want?
You can find a FSM here: http://phatg20.net/index.php?option...elect&id=20 |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by MixManMash
Now the more expensive items:
1. JWT ECU upgrade.
2. Mike Smith Manifolds (requires EGR delete)
3. Turbo's if the ones on your car are shot. Consider JWT Sport 500s or JWT Sport 530s. Limit your boost with a turbo upgrade to the waste gate setting (12 psi on 500s, 10 psi on 530bbs) as you will max out your stock injectors.
4. Exhaust - Specialty Z Expansion Down Pipes, 3" test pipes, full 3" cat back.
5. Skies the limit - how much and what do you want?
Holy high roller batman!! :blink:
Those items are not for the budget minded... |
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| MixManMash |
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
Holy high roller batman!! :blink:
Those items are not for the budget minded...
hehehe. You know me, GO BIG OR GO HOME! lol.
Just wait until you see my next 2 sets of wheels... One set for auto-x another for track. And I still have my Fittipaldi's for street bling. |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by MixManMash
hehehe. You know me, GO BIG OR GO HOME! lol.
Yeah, yeah.... We don't know ZEguy's situation but one could take the more economical path and do like what Rob did: Sp500s w/ stock manifolds, and a 2.5" exhaust. That would be much more affordable, especially for someone just starting out.
quote:
Just wait until you see my next 2 sets of wheels... One set for auto-x another for track.
I'm not sure I understand your logical there. Why would you need different wheels for auto-x and track?? They are pretty much the same application. Either you want to run an r-compound on an alternate wheel or you don't. |
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| MixManMash |
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
Yeah, yeah.... We don't know ZEguy's situation but one could take the more economical path and do like what Rob did: Sp500s w/ stock manifolds, and a 2.5" exhaust. That would be much more affordable, especially for someone just starting out.
I agree - we don't. It's just that I hate taking something apart to a certain point, not upgrading the most that's possible and then a year later tearing into that same area and adding the next part. It's just a lot of time. I would rather gather up all the parts and then do it in one go.
quote:
I'm not sure I understand your logical there. Why would you need different wheels for auto-x and track?? They are pretty much the same application. Either you want to run an r-compound on an alternate wheel or you don't.
Logic isn't dictating. Deals are dictating. Plus some practicallity is dictating.
Umm, some people do not run R-compounds for auto-x - i.e. Scott Smith doesn't from what I have seen in his profile. There are some street tires that are amazing for auto-x (i.e. Dunlop Direzza Z1, Falken RT-615, Yokohama Advan Neova AD07). Really, I plan to keep my track wheels here in Calgary for use at Race City (my office/warehouse in Calgary is barely a hop, skip and a jump away). Unless, somehow I decide to get a small wheel trailer... |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Plus some practicallity is dictating.
Really, I plan to keep my track wheels here in Calgary for use at Race City.
Unless, somehow I decide to get a small wheel trailer...
Ok, that makes more sense. Trying to have everything in two cities presents a bit of a problem, agreed. Even myself I'd be faced with the choice of driving down to Calgary on r-compounds, vs. finding a support vehicle to take stuff down.
Still, with the number of track events and auto-x events we get in each summer typically (which is relatively few), its hard to justify the cost of even one set of additional wheels & tires, let alone two.
Wow, sorry about the thread hijack ZEguy. |
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| MixManMash |
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
Wow, sorry about the thread hijack ZEguy.
2nd.
It's hard to justify, agreed. The only way I am justifying it is because of the pricing I'm getting. Plus, I can always sell one set of wheels when I'm done with them. |
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| joker |
| I have a 91 factory service manual you can borrow if youd like. |
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| ZEguy |
Thanks.When are you free for me to come grab it? I want to start reading ASAP.
This is going to be an ongoing project, i just want it to be a driveable Fairlady Z.By the time ive ripped out this engine and put in a new one i should know how to take the engine out and do upgrades myself later on.I just cant dump ALL my money into this car right now, i gotta get rollin in school and stuff. |
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| MixManMash |
Fair enough. At the bare minimum, do the following with the motor out of the car (a lot easier to deal with at this point):
1. Pull the plenum off and delete the throttle body water jacket lines. This will require a new lower plenum to upper plenum gasket, some vacuum hose and some coolant hose.
2. EGR delete.
3. Replace as much vacuum hose as it will be brittle. If you can afford it, go silicone hoses.
4. Replace the knock sensor.
5. Do a full 120k service.
But definitely check out the condition of the turbo's. If they are shot or close, consider a small upgrade such as the Sport 500s. The Sport 530s are a 5 bolt turbo and will require new downpipes.
G/L with your project. I will try and give you a hand whenever possible, but I have a ton of projects at hand right now. |
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| ZEguy |
quote:
Originally posted by MixManMash
1. Pull the plenum off and delete the throttle body water jacket lines. This will require a new lower plenum to upper plenum gasket, some vacuum hose and some coolant hose.
2. EGR delete.
3. Replace as much vacuum hose as it will be brittle. If you can afford it, go silicone hoses.
4. Replace the knock sensor.
5. Do a full 120k service.
But definitely check out the condition of the turbo's. If they are shot or close, consider a small upgrade such as the Sport 500s. The Sport 530s are a 5 bolt turbo and will require new downpipes.
I will do such things my friend, ill consider em necessary.Which they pretty much are, for obvious reasons. |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by ZEguy
ill consider em necessary.Which they pretty much are, for obvious reasons.
Actually, a couple of those, namely #1 & 2 are not "necessary". They are just nice to do and make sense. But they are by no means a must. |
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| vorpalz |
let me chime in with another 'necessary' item: new EFI harness. Now is the time to install, when you pull the motor. When I had my engine rebuilt, I didn't replace it and I've kicked myself since.
Trust me, replacing it with a motor swap will save you endless grief in the future.
Regards, |
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| UR2SLO |
My brother is going to be selling his full stainless steel Stillen exhaust along with new downpipes for aftermarket turbos soon. Its 2.5" piping all the way back.
R.K. |
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| joker |
| Im around most evenings, pm me and we can set up a time |
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| ZEguy |
I have the oppritunity to buy two T28 turbos for 900$ brand new
Good buy?
These off a GTR v spec?
How much more boost / HP than stock turbos?
Overall worth it? |
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| Prudz_lude |
| Good luck with the build Albert. Hopefully you have the car running this year. I would listen to what everyone has already said. Do as much maintance as you can while the engine is out. You will not regret. Also, new harnesses are really nice to have. |
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| MixManMash |
quote:
Originally posted by ZEguy
I have the oppritunity to buy two T28 turbos for 900$ brand new
Good buy?
These off a GTR v spec?
How much more boost / HP than stock turbos?
Overall worth it?
I believe that this will require a lot of custom work to install (intake and exhaust components). I can't seem to find it, but I do remember somebody on twinturbo.net fitting these on a VG30DETT. |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by ZEguy
I have the oppritunity to buy two T28 turbos for 900$ brand new
Good buy?
These off a GTR v spec?
How much more boost / HP than stock turbos?
Overall worth it?
If they are a "GT28R", those are good turbos and that would be a steal of a price actually. But as Mahesh said, they would require a bit of work to fit (flange adaption, etc.).
However, if they are "T28" as you've said, avoid them. The T28 moniker has never been a good thing for the Z32 application. That implies a big blade crammed in a small housing. Very peaky but they run hot (cause lots of reversion). They could jeopardize your engine as well.
T28's were all the rage on tt.net back in ~'00-01, pushed by a few shady companies, before people knew any better. After numerous stories of bad experience (bad performance, bad reliability, and even engine problems), people wised up and know to avoid 'em.
Here's a excerpt from Mike Kojima (a post he made on tt.net), from 2001:
quote:
Brand X Fake T28 (from various "upgrade" companies including many famous ones)
Pros:
Cheap, people on forum with no dyno access think they are good. Bolt directly to stock downpipes.
Cons:
A big POS. These are big 65 trim T-3 compressor wheels carved to fit in the stock .48 a/r T25 compressor housings. This sucks as it effectivly eliminates the diffusor section of the compressor housing. About 30% of the air's compression takes place here so it is critcal to maintain this. Old 40's turbos had no diffusor and were less than 50% efficent because of this. This sort of compressor upgrade might flow better but will heat the carge temp to over 300 degrees F at 20 psi of boost. You can see these suckers instantly boil ice water sprayed on intercoolers on the dyno at high boost. Very peaky power output. The turbine is usualy a 68-79 trim (depending on company) T25 "G" (there is really no such thing as this) carved into the stock T2 .63 or worse yet .48 a/r exhaust housing. Although the exhaust side is not as sentive to wheel to housing geometry, the smaller housing flows worse and is less efficent. Poor efficency all around leads to lag and backpressure. Backpressure leads to reversion and detonation. Notice that many people that run these turbos seem to have engine failure? Compressor to turbine mismatch also results in thrust bearing failure.
The lag and peaky power these piles make fools people into thinking they are fast.
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| ZEguy |
Ad Description:
these are the 4 bolt ones
New set of T28 turbo's for sale
they actually come with a 1 year warranty I will pass it on to the new buyer
I think 7 months are still on warranty
$900
***** No cores required*****
well after hearing that info i dont think these are the turbos for me.i dont want to use shady stuff in my engine bay, and espically turbos.And i looking for smaller to medium size turbos, i dont want lots of turbo lag. |
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| superspeed |
| GT28.............................................................. |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by superspeed
GT28..............................................................
Only if they have ball-bearings, otherwise no. |
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| superspeed |
| oops haha forgot that and agreed with the rest on the hyrbird t28 dont waste ur money.... |
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| ZEguy |
Yea theyre not.
"they are brand new in the stock housing for ttz's super .60 trim compressor wheel, T28 turbine wheel. 360 degree thrust bearing
I had a set of T28's before this build dyno'd around 420? @ 17 psi 3yrs ago"
ill just tell him to forget it.Still hunting.....i want ball bearing.:( |
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| MixManMash |
| Your best bet for Ball bearings are to find a set of JWT 530BBs (GT2554R). I picked up a set for a pretty reasonable price and they are in brand new condition. |
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| ZEguy |
Lucky you.I am on a serious hunt to find some of those used in good shape man, after researching its the way i want to go.
Oppritunity came up to purchase a 255lph fuel pump for 80 bucks shiped to my door brand new.Thought on this? worth while upgrade?
Thx again guys:thumbup:
My chassis im swapping into has 190 XXX on it so im thinkin its a good deal. |
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| superspeed |
| beware of used turbo a few people have on 3zc got scrweed buying used turbos..... |
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| mike300zxt |
quote:
Originally posted by MixManMash
Your best bet for Ball bearings are to find a set of JWT 530BBs (GT2554R). I picked up a set for a pretty reasonable price and they are in brand new condition.
Agreed...an awesome turbo for the Z. Fast response, and loads of power for the street! I love mine! |
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| MixManMash |
quote:
Originally posted by mike300zxt
Agreed...an awesome turbo for the Z. Fast response, and loads of power for the street! I love mine!
Yup. Can't wait to get mine on... It's going to be a while though. |
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| bremley |
| if your still looking for a hand, i'd like to give you a hand. Just moved to alberta last april don't really know anyone around here yet, but always willing to help out fellow z'ers. my engines sitting a stand right now, need to turbos and a gasket kit to put it back in. |
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| vorpalz |
quote:
Originally posted by MixManMash
Yup. Can't wait to get mine on... It's going to be a while though.
Aw, c'mon, we can do it this weekend... easy bolt-on, no motor pull, I'll help and everything... where have we heard this before? :D
Regards, |
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| MixManMash |
quote:
Originally posted by vorpalz
Aw, c'mon, we can do it this weekend... easy bolt-on, no motor pull, I'll help and everything... where have we heard this before? :D
Regards,
I has waiting for you to say that... :lol:
Make me eat my words. It's a little different since I have manifolds to change out too. Plus 530BB's are a little bigger than the 500s. |
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| mike300zxt |
Haha! 530BBs can be installed with the engine in, but it's definately a lot easier to get everything torqued properly with the engine out! They were originally done on my car with the engine in, but it was hugely frustrating and time-consuming!
Mike |
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| MixManMash |
Manifolds too?
Time-consuming and frustrating for sure. Just ask Vorpalz ;) |
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| mike300zxt |
| Yup, manifolds too! |
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| vorpalz |
OK, you win... I'm crazy, but not that crazy. Turbos were enough for me.
Regards, |
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| mike300zxt |
| Lol...in for a penny, in for a pound! |
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| MixManMash |
| Impressive. But man, that's gotta be a serious Bee-otch. |
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| bremley |
| its a big enough pain bolting up turbos with the engine out |
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| ZEguy |
| Almost have the garage situation sorted out.Waiting for a reply from a dude on here then the wrenching begins.ill have pics up of the before stage soon. |
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| bremley |
| start the swap yet? |
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| ZEguy |
| No, because i am a loser and broke two knuckles and cant use my right hand at all.Yay barfights. |
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| bremley |
| thats rough, set you back for a few weeks then. |
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