| Silverbane |
I know that these questions probably get old, but I would like to get clarification from blocker on this.
quote:
Mufflers
61(1) A motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine must have an exhaust muffler that is cooling and expelling the exhaust gases from the engine without excessive noise and without producing flames or sparks.
(2) A person shall not drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine if the exhaust outlet of the muffler has been widened.
(3) A person shall not drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine if a device is attached to the exhaust system or the muffler that increases the noise made by the expulsion of gases from the engine or allows a flame to be ignited from the exhaust system.
We all know this to be correct. My question is as follows:
The 2008 Honda Civic Si exhaust tip (Optional Factory Performance as well as Stock) is larger in diameter then 4 inches. If this is the case, as the law reads, it should be legal to put a different exhaust onto the car as long as it is less then or equal to the size of the exhaust coming off.
Henseforth, an aftermarket 4" exhaust should be legal on this car?
If this is the case as well, how would I go about explaining it to a police officer if I were ever pulled over for it? (I was pulled over in a previous car and ticketed because the stock pipe was only 2 inches and I had an aftermarket 4" on it).
I have now read maybe 30 threads on this and many have different answers. |
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| BLOCKER |
If your cars stock exhaust outlet is 2" you can only replace it with a 2" outlet.
Just because another car has 4" exhaust outlet from the factory does not make it okay on your car.
You stated the 2008 Civic Si has a 4" exhaust, does the car your are currently driving have a 4" exhaust on it from the factory? |
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| Silverbane |
| It is 2.5" to the muffler then 2.5" out to a 4" tip. |
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| BLOCKER |
Just for clarification, The stock exhaust you took off your car, has a 4" tip.
if that is true, then you could put an aftermarket exhaust with a 4" tip on your car.
However, explaining this to the police officer, might not work on the road side. take the ticket and take it to court.
I would hang on to the stock tip/exhaust to produce as "proof" in court, or at the very least a letter from a honda dealer indicating the stock size of the exhaust. |
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| Ayeso |
only one problem here,
the ACTUAL outlet of the si exhaust is NOT 4 inches, it is 2.5 or so... the TIP is 4 inches...
the actual outlet of an aftermarket exhaust is 4 inches... in this case for it to be truyely legal you would need a silencer that forces the outlet size to be 2.5 inches
see my picture for understanding
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| Silverbane |
This here is the factory performance muffler:
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| BLOCKER |
Mufflers
61(1) A motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine must have an exhaust muffler that is cooling and expelling the exhaust gases from the engine without excessive noise and without producing flames or sparks.
= You have a muffer, as long as the noise is not excessive, you should be fine.
(2) A person shall not drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine if the exhaust outlet of the muffler has been widened.
= one could argue the outlet of the stock exhaust is 4 inches as the 4" tip extend past the 2.5 outlet
(3) A person shall not drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine if a device is attached to the exhaust system or the muffler that increases the noise made by the expulsion of gases from the engine or allows a flame to be ignited from the exhaust system.
= does the muffler increase noise? or allow a flame? if not you should be okay. |
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| MX5 Miata Guy |
quote:
Originally posted by BLOCKER
does the muffler increase noise? or allow a flame? if not you should be okay.
Intersting that one...in so much as just about any rotary-engined car can be made to spit flame out the exhaust given the right conditions (the combustion process is still occuring when the exhaust ports are exposed -- older design, not counting the "renesis" engine in the RX-8). My old 1980 RX-7 would flame if brought to 7,000rpm and allowed to engine brake to approx 2,000rpm...nothing I could do to prevent that (other than not doing that).
Made for interesting light-shows and sound effects in the old Rathole tunnel under the CNR tracks downtown. |
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| DivineRight |
| Fire shooting out of exhaust = bad |
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| Ayeso |
quote:
Originally posted by BLOCKER
Mufflers
61(1) A motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine must have an exhaust muffler that is cooling and expelling the exhaust gases from the engine without excessive noise and without producing flames or sparks.
= You have a muffer, as long as the noise is not excessive, you should be fine.
(2) A person shall not drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine if the exhaust outlet of the muffler has been widened.
= one could argue the outlet of the stock exhaust is 4 inches as the 4" tip extend past the 2.5 outlet
(3) A person shall not drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine if a device is attached to the exhaust system or the muffler that increases the noise made by the expulsion of gases from the engine or allows a flame to be ignited from the exhaust system.
= does the muffler increase noise? or allow a flame? if not you should be okay.
I agree with you on that one, its just a matter of how its interpreted... when it comes down to it its a matter of the judge. the reason I say the outlet is different is that on most aftermarket mufflers the outlet of the muffler is even, ie, it doesnt go out the muffler at 2.5 then expand to 4, its usually jsut a straight 4 inch out. |
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| 4kruzn |
if ive said it once ive said it a thousand times.......
show me the words must not be bigger than stock in that law.....
no not he part about enlarged....
the part where it says must be the same diameter as from factory.
oh ya it doesnt. the problem isnt the law. its the way the local police have chosen to enforce it incorectly.
see the word enlarged. that is a verb. for ex.
" i am watching porn... my penis has become enlarged."
putting an oversized from factory exhaust system has nothing to do with the law. or the word enlarged.
sorry guys but you will never convince me of this one.
read the law. use the dictionary. ask the judge to enforce the law, not enterpret it like the police are.
as a side note anyone want to measure the outlet of the muffler on one of these cars.... look closely to the pictrure.
stop obsessing with the 4" chrome decoration on the end of the tailpipe. really look at the muffler. you will see that its outlet is really quite small. that is true for most mufflers. nearly all mufflers have the same inlet and outlet size. |
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| BLOCKER |
quote:
Originally posted by 4kruzn
if ive said it once ive said it a thousand times.......
show me the words must not be bigger than stock in that law.....
no not he part about enlarged....
the part where it says must be the same diameter as from factory.
oh ya it doesnt. the problem isnt the law. its the way the local police have chosen to enforce it incorectly.
see the word enlarged. that is a verb. for ex.
" i am watching porn... my penis has become enlarged."
putting an oversized from factory exhaust system has nothing to do with the law. or the word enlarged.
sorry guys but you will never convince me of this one.
read the law. use the dictionary. ask the judge to enforce the law, not enterpret it like the police are.
as a side note anyone want to measure the outlet of the muffler on one of these cars.... look closely to the pictrure.
stop obsessing with the 4" chrome decoration on the end of the tailpipe. really look at the muffler. you will see that its outlet is really quite small. that is true for most mufflers. nearly all mufflers have the same inlet and outlet size.
The law does not say "enlarged" it says:
(2) A person shall not drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine if the exhaust outlet of the muffler has been widened.
The courts have chosen to interpret the laws, otherwise the police would not enforce as they do.
for the most part police don't obsess over the 4" chrome, the reason you get pulled over for this is because you are operating your vehicle in such a manner that draws the police attention.
I'm sorry, but no one here is trying to convince you... if you don't like the laws, become a politician, get elected, and change it... or vote for some one who will... the police are not the ones to be upset with. Fact of the matter is, they are simply the people who enforce the law your elected representives create. If you want to modify your exhaust, go ahead, if it is inviolation of the act, be prepared to deal with the consequences.
And I am sorry but saying "show me the words must not be bigger than stock in that law"
Is just like saying "show me the words can not stab your neighbour 173 times in that law"
ridiculous
:banghead: |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
You could argue along the same lines, sure the car came with a 2.5" outlet on the muffler, I did not "widen" the outlet, i bought a new muffler that came with a 3.5" outlet. The replacement part was designed and manufactured with the outlet to be 3.5" and as such that part was not widened, as it is still how the manufacturer of said part intented it to be.
Not that I have an issue with it.. I tend to keep to factory sizes |
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| Silverbane |
So then Blocker, according to the law, as a police officer, if the final tip size is 4 inches you believe it safe to put another exhaust that has a tip of 4" on it but if I do get pulled over be ready to prove in court that the 4" came on the car as the officer will likely not believe me.
Is that sound safe to you? |
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| AudiInProgress |
What sounds safe to me, is stop being a ricer, and cops won't hassle you. Who cares if you're "well within your rights" or not... Do you want to put up with the hassle? Ask yourself that. Can you miss time off work to go fight court battles... Or are you going to carry around the OEM exhaust in your trunk 24/7?
-rob |
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| Rich_A |
This post was is in violation of forum rules
"Please no attacks on officers or the Dept. All subjects should be in the form of a question."
Only warning
________
Minge - vulgar term for a woman's pubic hair or genitals |
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| AudiInProgress |
quote:
Originally posted by Rich_A
honestly, cops that ticket for the diameter of an exhaust tip alone are minge-bags.
Unacceptable comment in this area of the forum.
Thread locked. |
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| BLOCKER |
quote:
Originally posted by Silverbane
So then Blocker, according to the law, as a police officer, if the final tip size is 4 inches you believe it safe to put another exhaust that has a tip of 4" on it but if I do get pulled over be ready to prove in court that the 4" came on the car as the officer will likely not believe me.
Is that sound safe to you?
Baised on the information i have read in this thread, I would agree.
However, I cannot predict any outcome in court. This is strictly my interpretation. (Hence the wordy signature)
This would be my course of action.
Scenaro.......
(day of ticket)
Police Officer: here is your ticket for widened exhuast tip
ME: Yes Sir
Police Officer: You are free to leave
ME: [drive away without squeeling my tires]
(court date)
ME: [dressed in suit and tie] hello, sir, could I talk to you about this ticket?
Prosecutor: How do you want to plead
ME: Not guilty sir, this is why [show ACT, picks and explain my situation and intrepetion of the act]
-it is now left in his hands to decide to proceed or not
-if it proceeds, explain it all to the justice (judge)
Keep in mind, You will spend a mininum of 3 hours in court for $57 ticket. (but some times its a principle thing). |
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| BLOCKER |
quote:
Originally posted by AudiInProgress
Unacceptable comment in this area of the forum.
Thread locked.
Remember... not the forum police... you said it yourself
quote:
Originally posted by AudiInProgress
I am the grammar police, and the off-topic police, and the... Oh well. I try.
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| AudiInProgress |
| I said I try to be... Hence my previous posting. |
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| Soulfly |
quote:
Originally posted by BLOCKER
The law does not say "enlarged" it says:
(2) A person shall not drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine if the exhaust outlet of the muffler has been widened.
When you receive the ticket.. Mine have said: "Drive a vehicle with ENLARGED Exhaust" or... ""Drive a vehicle with ENLARGED Exhaust Outlet". |
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| BLOCKER |
It is just wording
Enlarge:
1. to make larger; increase in extent, bulk, or quantity; add to: They enlarged the house by adding an east wing.
2. to increase the capacity or scope of; expand: We've decided to enlarge the company.
3. to make (a photographic print) larger than the negative by projecting the negative's image through a lens onto photographic printing paper.
Widen:
to make or become wide or wider; broaden; expand.
I was simply pointing out that the act stated widen... not enlarge...
It is a mute point really |
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| BLOCKER |
| and that's why your the grammar police |
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| shawley |
quote:
Originally posted by BLOCKER
The law does not say "enlarged" it says:
(2) A person shall not drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine if the exhaust outlet of the muffler has been widened.
The courts have chosen to interpret the laws, otherwise the police would not enforce as they do.
for the most part police don't obsess over the 4" chrome, the reason you get pulled over for this is because you are operating your vehicle in such a manner that draws the police attention.
I'm sorry, but no one here is trying to convince you... if you don't like the laws, become a politician, get elected, and change it... or vote for some one who will... the police are not the ones to be upset with. Fact of the matter is, they are simply the people who enforce the law your elected representives create. If you want to modify your exhaust, go ahead, if it is inviolation of the act, be prepared to deal with the consequences.
And I am sorry but saying "show me the words must not be bigger than stock in that law"
Is just like saying "show me the words can not stab your neighbour 173 times in that law"
ridiculous
:banghead:
i've beat 2 tickets using 4kruzns way of explaining it |
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| Godzilla |
quote:
Originally posted by BLOCKER
It is just wording
Enlarge:
1. to make larger; increase in extent, bulk, or quantity; add to: They enlarged the house by adding an east wing.
2. to increase the capacity or scope of; expand: We've decided to enlarge the company.
3. to make (a photographic print) larger than the negative by projecting the negative's image through a lens onto photographic printing paper.
Widen:
to make or become wide or wider; broaden; expand.
I was simply pointing out that the act stated widen... not enlarge...
It is a mute point really
both of wich are verbs, as in the outlet has been enlarged or widened from what it once was. the ONLY ticket i have ever recieved in my skyline was for an "enlarged exauset outlet" (wich i am fighting by the way) my tip is 4.5 in wich is large but it is the same size from the exaust outlet to the tip. large but not enlarged. the way i read it if i for some stupid reason decided to flare the tip of my exaust, then i would be enlarged. on that note the new GM duramax exaust outlets are flared out are they illegal? |
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| GOT BOOST |
This thread is off topic. All questions have been answered.
No point arguing online, if you get the ticket talk to the crown prosecutor.
Mike |
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| BLOCKER |
quote:
Originally posted by shawley
i've beat 2 tickets using 4kruzns way of explaining it
Good for you! Thats why we have court system... |
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| BLOCKER |
quote:
Originally posted by Godzilla
both of wich are verbs, as in the outlet has been enlarged or widened from what it once was. the ONLY ticket i have ever recieved in my skyline was for an "enlarged exauset outlet" (wich i am fighting by the way) my tip is 4.5 in wich is large but it is the same size from the exaust outlet to the tip. large but not enlarged. the way i read it if i for some stupid reason decided to flare the tip of my exaust, then i would be enlarged. on that note the new GM duramax exaust outlets are flared out are they illegal?
Talk to shawley he obviously has the system beat....
GM duramax pipes are as is from the factory.. |
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