| Air to water intercooler - Click HERE for Original Thread |
| Erfinder |
Does anyone out there use a "water to air" intercooler or is everyone using an "air to air" intercooler?
I was talking to a guy who said his intake temp on his MR2 turbo was about 20 degrees Celcius over ambient with an "air to air" intercooler and dropped to 10 degrees Celcius over ambient with a "water to air" intercooler. (I think he was only running 8.5 PSI of boost)
I've never met anyone with a water to air system so I was wondering if this other guy is making up numbers or if 10 degrees Celcius over ambient is achievable.
I'd like to drop a 2.0L Turbo (Opel/Holden)(like GsiTurbo) into my 2001 Daewoo Lanos and I want to explore all options since I'm looking at building the engine up from scratch with all performance parts. |
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| SplineZ |
I am probly wrong, but isnt a water to air i/c just a heatsink in a tub of chilled water? Its possible if the water is cold enough, Ive seen people stuff ice cubes and stuff into their resvours before.. you'd have to put cool water in there every run or 2..
Probly easier to use a regular air/air ic and spray it with water or NO2..
James Z |
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| Pro Drag |
quote:
Originally posted by Erfinder@Jul 23 2003, 07:32 PM
Does anyone out there use a "water to air" intercooler or is everyone using an "air to air" intercooler?
I was talking to a guy who said his intake temp on his MR2 turbo was about 20 degrees Celcius over ambient with an "air to air" intercooler and dropped to 10 degrees Celcius over ambient with a "water to air" intercooler. (I think he was only running 8.5 PSI of boost)
I've never met anyone with a water to air system so I was wondering if this other guy is making up numbers or if 10 degrees Celcius over ambient is achievable.
I'd like to drop a 2.0L Turbo (Opel/Holden)(like GsiTurbo) into my 2001 Daewoo Lanos and I want to explore all options since I'm looking at building the engine up from scratch with all performance parts.
Most don't consider a water to air "streetable". Lower Intake temps are achievable with a W-A IC. |
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| Anonymoose |
If you plan to run it on the street then you'd want to look into an air to water intercooler (a rad) to cool the water. After running under boost for a while the water temperature will eventually match the intake charge temperatire and no heat will be extracted from the air making the intercooler useless. This setup is complex and heavy since it would require a rad and a pump. Thus an air to air is usually nominal for the street.
Water to air is a good setup for the track since you only run for such a short period of time and you can put ice etc into the water between runs. |
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| Erfinder |
I was under the impresion that if done right the water can be cooled to ambient during normal operating conditions (track or street)
Water to Air is way more efficent at removing heat compared to Air to Air.
If the rad is large enough and placed in the right position it should be able to bring the water back down to near ambient.
My thought is to integrate it into the hood.... The air would go into a large(wide) raised vent, through the rad and then exit onto my window.
I figure I should be able to make it 2.5" X 15" X 36" which is one hell of a large radiator. I'd probably run a resevoir in the range of about 5 to 10 liters to start and decrease or increase depending on how well it works.
I should be able to insulate it from the engine heat by leaving a 1/4" air gap under the radiator so that the air rushing under the rad can disperse any heat being generated ( I'd also like to add a small phenolic plate integrated into the hood which will be made from a combination of kevlar and carbon fiber) |
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| Almost |
if your running that huge of a radiator, you could combine the water to air intercooler with your engine coolant system to save weight on extra pumps and circulatory systems. You'd have the added benefit of cooling down everything at once.
The key to cooling the water quickly at ambient temperatures is surface area, getting the water through the smallest pipes possible with the largest surface area of fins. The temperature of water will drop like a friken stone when it's done properly. |
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| SplineZ |
the thing is that you need to keep your engine in operationg temperature... which is very hot compared to the intake air temp that you want for a turbo app. 2 systems would work MUCH better.
The weight could be lost be taking a crap before you race :)
and besides, if the charge is that cool, you can turn up the boost a little and offset the extra weight.
James Z |
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| rage2 |
An air to water intercooler is 10x more efficient than an air to air intercooler for the same core size. The nice thing about an A2W setup is plumbing is a lot easier... water lines are a lot easier to move around than charge pipes.
A2W has huge advantage on the streets, and short bursts such as drag racing. Heat soak is rarely a problem if you have a separate water cooling circuit (and a small rad for cooling the water). On a roadcourse, an A2W system would heat soak fairly quickly, so efficiency drops rather quickly. This is about the only time an Air to Air system has an advantage.
A2A systems suck on the street, it's useless in stop and go traffic on hot days. Heat soak is a huge problem because it takes a while at 70km/h+ speeds to remove the heat in the system sitting in traffic. At the track it'll keep things really cool though.
My SLK 32 has an air to water system with it's own water circuit (pump, rad, etc), and my 944 turbo has an air to air system. On the street on a hot day, the SLK is faster, and on the roadcourse the 944 will pull on the SLK. |
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| ST165 |
My car is an 88 Celica Alltrac Turbo which comes factory with a WTA setup... When using a WTA intercooling system i guess you also have to take account the placement of the intercooler... Toyota did a fairly bad job at this by placing the intercooler right on top of the engine (which makes heat soak an issue).
Both intercooling systems have their pros and cons... a lot of the celica guys w/ the wta setup choose to upgrade to a big fmic instead for the sake of simplicity... wta intercoolers have 3 main components (water core, pump, radiator) whereas the ATA IC's are simply piping and the core. water to air intercoolers would require also more room in the engine bay for all the hoses and what not.
Efficiency i'd say a good wta setup wins but air to air intercoolers are much less hassle |
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