| Oil sands - Click HERE for Original Thread |
| Cobra_R |
Im a little distraught about something.
I get a facebook notification for a invite to an event and it is this.
Event: STOP: General Meeting
"OPEN TO ALL"
What: Club/Group Meeting
Host: Stop the Tar Sands - Edmonton
When: Tuesday, May 6 at 7:30pm
Where: 11123-77 ave
Its a protest group trying to stop oilsands develpment.
Now I don't work in the oil and gas industry, never been on a rig in my life but I have family that makes a damn good living busting there ass so the world can keep chugging along on the oil it needs. I agree that we need to do our part to clean the world and keep it "green" and its not because its the new HIP thing to do but because I want my children to see through there own eyes what I enjoyed as a kid when I went camping in the mountains and at the lakes etc. But this is the life blood of our province. I mean it is what gives us our tax cuts and puts food on many familys tables it is what has brought our economy out of the dirt and into the sky. its the main reason why we get tax cuts. the oil industry. the Edmonton Oilers were named from our oil.
The people who protest this probably havent put a 12 hour day in of hard labour yet alone some of the 16 hour days I have heard of. they werent away 3 weeks at a time away from there loved ones doing dangerous work.
they complain about C02 emissions
"Since 1995, monitoring in the oil sands region shows improved or no change in long term air quality for the five key air quality pollutants--carbon monoxide, nitrogen dioxide, ozone, fine particulate matter (PM2.5) and sulphur dioxide—used to calculate the Air Quality Index [15]. Air monitoring has shown significant increases in exceedances of hydrogen sulfide (H2S) both in the Fort McMurray area and near the oil sands upgraders."
"Carbon dioxide is an important greenhouse gas because it transmits visible light but absorbs strongly in the infrared."
thats taken from wikipedia. I personally would be more worried about H2S that is some nasty shit (for those of you who do not know Hydrogen sulfide or H2S is a naturally occuring gas in rotten vegetation that is comparable to Hydrogen cyanide as a poison)
I don't think you as a person should get the rewards we are reaping as a province and than bitch about where they came from.
Am I wrong for thinking this way? |
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| Invalid Zero |
Yeah like a bunch of hippy retards with too much time on their hands will make the big oil players stop and say, "You know what? They're right, let's pack up and leave."
Idiots.:rolleyes: |
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| CKXtreme |
And I bet these protesters are all drinking bottled water (oil). And driving their cars (oil) to the protests. And making massive vinyl (oil) signs proclaiming their intentions. And I bet they even spent their Ralph-Cheque (oil) on something useless for themselves. And that something was probably packaged in plastic (oil) for shipping. And the shipping came via diesel cargo container (oil) from China.
They're right.. We should probably just shut it all down. Especially since we're doing so well on beef export. Oh wait. Well, there's always BC's lumber export. Shit.... |
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| GOT SE-R |
quote:
Originally posted by CKXtreme
And I bet these protesters are all drinking bottled water (oil). And driving their cars (oil) to the protests. And making massive vinyl (oil) signs proclaiming their intentions. And I bet they even spent their Ralph-Cheque (oil) on something useless for themselves. And that something was probably packaged in plastic (oil) for shipping. And the shipping came via diesel cargo container (oil) from China.
They're right.. We should probably just shut it all down. Especially since we're doing so well on beef export. Oh wait. Well, there's always BC's lumber export. Shit....
:lol:
well said. If anything protest about the $$ cost of oil & Gas as it directly effects our necessity of living (food, heat, transportation, ect......) but since there paying everyone big $$ it is a lost battle of economics and millions of people/businesses of industry related to sell goods, fabricate, ect. I guess we could go back to riding horse and carriage. lol. |
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| joshturbo |
people are so stupid, i dont want to imagine what would happen if the goverment shutdown this province,
they say go green, then why do they use natural gas to heat there homes in the winter, why arent they walking to fort mcmurry rather then driving up here to protest. so stupid , if they actually study what oil is used for then they would have no choice but to shut the fcuk up |
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| Graphicdude |
I am one for environmental concern and I understand that what is going on up there isn't such a good thing for the natural landscape. But these fuckwads need to think about this rationally.
Closing down the Oilsands is such an ingenious idea. Why not put 10,000 plus Albertans out of work?!. My god it would be sooo good for our economy. Just think of all the jobs it would create.......:mad: :mad: :mad:
This is what i hate about tree hugging faggots. They never look at both sides of ANY issue, they are close minded and lack intelligence. Their irrational thinking is what makes them nothing but a joke to the rest of the world. And the NUMBER ONE reason why no one listens to them. They are pathetic sheep just following the herd.
I bet you half of these pricks all have jobs that are related in one shape or form to the Oilsands. Whether it's a retail position or one of their immediate family members work for a company that deals with the Oilsands production. Or how about the amount of petroleum that is being used for the Plastics industry??? Fuck they make me angry...
I wouldn't lose any sleep if any of them were to die fighting for their "cause" I am willing to donate five bucks for ammo to be used in "correcting" these assholes. |
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| CKXtreme |
You know.. I'm almost as irked as Cobra R....
I bet if you do an educational profile of the group members, I'm willing to say that most of the people actually putting an effort to this are 1st year environmental studies.
Take a macro economics course. They'll change their tune. |
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| GOT BOOST |
| Bury the tree huggers in the tar sands. In a few million years we can dig them up, refine them and burn them in our cars. |
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| Cobra_R |
there are 3 points on which I think these people could have a impact. and these things would help us out as a country. not try and block us with a singleminded approach that oil is bad.
Yes lets look at are beef export and what can be done to help rectify it. then lets look at our neighbour to the west.
How many of these tree huggers have seen the massive forests that are being destroyed in a in a very fast epidemic because of the mountain pine beetle. you can see the devestation on google earth.
Or how many have gone through and seen the massive amounts of commercialization of our national parks. I don't know about you but I pay to drive through there and I do not want to see my money go towards fancy condo's for people who do not live in the country.
If these people are so worried about our future lets worry about the real problems in our province and country first. before we attack the cash cow that is keeping us in the green. because if there were no oilsands not ten's of thousands hundreds of thousands would be affected you think the homeless problem is bad now imagine what it would be then. the housing market would collapse construction would slow. there would be alot of foreclosures. crime and violence would rise.
Imagine Detroit only more widespread almost province wide. |
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| EK9Hatch |
In one sense I agree that all this development is a bad idea. Consider almost everything we produce is headed to the Devils Country (USA)
Supplying their demand isn't a good thing.
Jamie |
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| BigTrucker |
Can we protest the protest? Maybe make signs and march around them chanting stupid rhyming slogans, or better yet, drive our cars in a big circle and then let them idle the rest of the day while we stand outside and talk while our bodies release dangerous CO2 when we exhale!!!
Seriously tho, all these peolpe do is whine and bitch (which is their right) but it's also my right to tell them they are wrong and to STFU. |
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| anschutz_93 |
The price of oil is (mostly) independent of the Supply and Demand theory. Sure its value is increasing due to the fact that it is a limited resource and is a requirement for our society but that is not the reason that it is worth $100/hr+....
For example lets look at the housing market in the United States, very simplified. You had a large population making ends meet by buying houses on low interest borrowed capital, waiting a couple months, and flipping for previous unheard of profits (ask any investor, a 30%/yr return (which was quite common) IS impossible playing stocks, even the best players would be happy with a 10% return). How were these Americans doing it... Speculators (along with a retarded interest rates... much too low) were artificially driving up the prices. As the trend of "flipping for profit" caught on, it caused a snowball effect (just like in Alberta), further driving up the already inflated prices. In the end houses which were worth 100k two years ago, are now worth $300k. However this $200k price difference isn't actually there, it only had the appearance of being there. When all the buyers were tricked into buying overpriced houses, the market saturated with unsold properties, these same speculators realized what was going on an got the hell out of dodge... You would think that buying and selling for profit wouldn't matter, w/e capital is trading hands but not leaving the country (thus it wouldn't matter in the least), but you are very wrong. All those loans made out were backed by foreign money, therefore a lot of the interest is leaving the United States (a lot has been bought by China). Now that haze has cleared and those that came late into the game are starting to default, even more cracks are starting to appear. We still don't know how deep this well is.
Now back to oil :lol: .... It's the exact same situation as the housing market. Speculators are controlling the price of oil. Depending on your source, many credible economists believe the current price of oil is actually ~80/barrel. Speculators are setting the price that oil will be sold months before the oil ever comes out of the ground, the result, oil is being traded at an artificially high value. The price of oil will continue to rise until the average North American cannot afford to drive, or the speculators realize what is going on and get out the market ASAP. Either/or within the next couple years interest rates are going to go up, if the bubble bursts the worldwide economy will be hurting for many years, if we keep to the same track we will slowly be drained as inflation wreaks our economy....
Anyways we DO need regulated development of the oil and gas sector, I'm all for central control of resource corporations, because obviously we cannot handle it ourselves... You people talk of milking the cow for all its worth... Slow the expansion and bring all value added industries back into Alberta! |
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| Casanova |
Let me preface my post with a disclaimer, I used to be extremely wasteful, I used to think nothing of littering and never recycled, until recently. I view Greenpeace and other related organizations (sometimes the NDP) as a bunch of irrational tree huggers. I am not tree hugger by any stretch.
I think what made me feel sick to my stomach is when the 500 ducks died and heres why:
Syncrude said something to the effect of "yah sorry, our bad, we usually have sonic horns to scare them away from our toxic sludge ponds, this year the weather prevented us from putting them up in time"
uhh wtf, toxic sludge ponds? They have ponds just sitting there in our soil full of toxins every year or year after year? I don't know much about it but that gave me a bit of a scare. If thats true I am guessing the oil sands are having a much more negative effect on our environment than everyone realizes.
Also, when they were showing pictures of these sonic horn things, they were sitting on what looked like a desert. Someone then informed me that the oilsands are turning part of northern alberta into vast deserts. Again. WTF.
Am I misinformed or concerned for no reason? |
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| Flip |
quote:
Originally posted by Casanova
Let me preface my post with a disclaimer, I used to be extremely wasteful, I used to think nothing of littering and never recycled, until recently. I view Greenpeace and other related organizations (sometimes the NDP) as a bunch of irrational tree huggers. I am not tree hugger by any stretch.
I think what made me feel sick to my stomach is when the 500 ducks died and heres why:
Syncrude said something to the effect of "yah sorry, our bad, we usually have sonic horns to scare them away from our toxic sludge ponds, this year the weather prevented us from putting them up in time"
uhh wtf, toxic sludge ponds? They have ponds just sitting there in our soil full of toxins every year or year after year? I don't know much about it but that gave me a bit of a scare. If thats true I am guessing the oil sands are having a much more negative effect on our environment than everyone realizes.
Also, when they were showing pictures of these sonic horn things, they were sitting on what looked like a desert. Someone then informed me that the oilsands are turning part of northern alberta into vast deserts. Again. WTF.
Am I misinformed or concerned for no reason?
If the 500 dead ducks on one occasion makes you sick, then what of the 30000 migrational birds killed every year in greenpower wind turbines?
The mining operations that create the "desert" look are slowing as SAGD operations become more advanced and profitable. Not that 1000's of acres of swamp are being missed by anyone other than a bunch of hippies who would otherwise not even know they exist.
My favorite "fact" that arises from these protestors is the "rising" number of Native Americans in the region being diagnosed with cancer from the polluted river. I'm sure drinking gasoline and aerosol cans, subsidized liquor and cigarettes has nothing to do with that. The 4 people I've known who've passed over the passed couple years from cancer have never been near an oilsands operation. |
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| ehrgeiz |
^
Which is the reason why ASRD still does not have any legislation for wind turbines. You'll only find them on privately owned land.
http://www.vbs.tv/video.php?id=987199110
A pretty biased video, but informative none the less. The oil sands are having a serious negative impact on the environment, but we "need" them.
This province is driven by greed and capitalism, just look at the "How much is enough? (annual income)" thread. As long as oil is in demand and the price justifies it nothing will stop the development of Oil Sands. |
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| Graphicdude |
quote:
Originally posted by ehrgeiz
....
This province is driven by greed and capitalism....
I think it goes much further than our province. That pretty much sums up the whole world. |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by Casanova
uhh wtf, toxic sludge ponds? They have ponds just sitting there in our soil full of toxins every year or year after year? I don't know much about it but that gave me a bit of a scare. If thats true I am guessing the oil sands are having a much more negative effect on our environment than everyone realizes.
Toxic sludge ponds. :rolleyes: Media sensationalism at work.
Tailings Ponds have existed up there for over THIRTY years, starting with Suncor, then Syncrude, and now all operations up there have them. They are huge ponds that consist mostly of WATER, sand, and oil.... OIL. Yes, from the general context that oil (heavy oil, light oil, motor oil, etc.) contains carcinogenic compounds, there is nothing more TOXIC about these ponds compared to when a tanker spills OIL in the ocean.
These ducks have been mostly dying because it's hard to swim and fly when your feathers are coated with thick oil. They are not dying on mass from immediate toxic effects.
This whole situation has been blown WAAAAY out of proportion by the media and the environmental activists.
I'd like to see the duck hunting statistics. How many ducks are shot every week/month/year in the province during the hunting seasons? |
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| stealth |
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
[b]Toxic sludge ponds. :rolleyes: Media sensationalism at work.
This whole situation has been blown WAAAAY out of proportion by the media and the environmental activists.
Agreed.
Their is a lot of misinformation that the media likes to use as propaganda. |
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| Cobra_R |
The fact is there are some nasty side effects of what the oil industry is doing to our land its not all just pollution.
Drugs is one part alot of people up there are high and it is readily available. the fact is you get alot of young guys who went from making 10-15 dollars in highschool bringing maybe 400-600 every 2 weeks home to bringing home 3000 every 2 weeks they have cash to blow on blow.
The inflation. tell me the housing crisis had nothing to do with the oil industry and inflation.
The fact is when oil prices jump so does everything else. it takes oil to transport shit. and for e85 yes great fuel wonderful technology but do you have the land to support growing crops for not just food but also fuel. also e85 does not lubricate engines.
Where starting to see not only a problem with oil food and also water but this is starting to sound like over population of earth. we are all stuck on a island and it has limited resources. and we all love excess.
If there were no oil sands imagine tent city and multiply it by about 25-50 think we got a homeless problem now. this is nothing compared to what we would have if tomorrow the oilsands just vanished. |
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| unlimited |
agreed with what Inzane said. i live in Fort McMurray and worked at site this past summer. Everyone that drives by in the bus or whatever, can see the huge smokestacks billowing out whatever it is i have no clue.
but the thing that got me, is that it took 500 ducks(im pretty sure they're not going extinct or such any time soon) to jolt the media into realizing that the Oil Sands is not all that. of course theirs environmental problems going on. but shutting them down is definitely not the way to solve the problem. Both sides are wrong and need to look at it clearly and not point the finger at the opposing side for all their problems.
It won't be solved in 5 months or even a year or two, it'll take some time before results show. |
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| ehos |
You guys that work up in the 'field' should know the answer to this one. Who hires the 'environmental specialists/quality control people'?
And what are they paid to do?
PS For those of you that don't know, the 'environmental' people (whatever their job designation) is the biggest joke in the oilsands. They're paid to NOT do anything.
If everything is OK, then why is everyone opposed to independent reviews of the plants practices? Even the PC government is now backpedaling, why?
I know that our oilsands make us all millionaires, but there's gotta be checks and balances on everything. I don't care if it's oilsands or the banks, or your local Tim Hortons. Same rules for everyone, regardless of how much $$$ is involved.
And, if you didn't know, most of the oilsands are owned by the Americans. That's why they give flippant remarks in our newspapers and they don't give a shit about what happens to us. MOST of the profit ends up OUT of Alberta (check out the average wage increase in Alberta adjusted to inflation if you think we 'so rich'). |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
And, if you didn't know, most of the oilsands are owned by the Americans. That's why they give flippant remarks in our newspapers and they don't give a shit about what happens to us. MOST of the profit ends up OUT of Alberta (check out the average wage increase in Alberta adjusted to inflation if you think we 'so rich').
Yeah no shit, where I work we had a hard time fighting for 3 or 4% cost of living increase per year... it's friggin less than $100/per month before taxes difference in my pay cheque... everything I buy has gone up more than 3% each year.... sheesh |
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| Flip |
quote:
Originally posted by Cobra_R
The fact is there are some nasty side effects of what the oil industry is doing to our land its not all just pollution.
Drugs is one part alot of people up there are high and it is readily available. the fact is you get alot of young guys who went from making 10-15 dollars in highschool bringing maybe 400-600 every 2 weeks home to bringing home 3000 every 2 weeks they have cash to blow on blow.
The inflation. tell me the housing crisis had nothing to do with the oil industry and inflation.
The fact is when oil prices jump so does everything else. it takes oil to transport shit. and for e85 yes great fuel wonderful technology but do you have the land to support growing crops for not just food but also fuel. also e85 does not lubricate engines.
Where starting to see not only a problem with oil food and also water but this is starting to sound like over population of earth. we are all stuck on a island and it has limited resources. and we all love excess.
If there were no oil sands imagine tent city and multiply it by about 25-50 think we got a homeless problem now. this is nothing compared to what we would have if tomorrow the oilsands just vanished.
Umm,... you're all over the map. |
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| joshturbo |
| here's another thing that makes me sick, a week or 2 ago, a man died at albians site, no one really heard about about, but we hear about ducks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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| ehos |
quote:
Originally posted by joshturbo
here's another thing that makes me sick, a week or 2 ago, a man died at albians site, no one really heard about about, but we hear about ducks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Money >>>> houses > environment > dogs/pets/ducks > cars >> people |
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| Cobra_R |
quote:
Originally posted by Flip
Umm,... you're all over the map.
I summarized multiple problems in a few paragraphs but you get a good idea that there are far worse things then the oil sands, one of them being no oil sands. |
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