| ptemomo |
Ok, im in the market for a new pickup truck. So far im debating between the Colorado/Canyon, Tacoma and the Frontier. Here's my question.
I have a few contact in the industry back home(montreal) and i can get my hand on invoice price on all of them. I made an offer for a Colorado yesterday for 1000$ over invoice and they wouldnt take it. My contact back home told me that they would always take 1k over invoice. Are dealers more hungry here? What do you guys habitually accept? I think they hate me cause im not the noob that will pay 4-5k over invoice and all their stupid hidden fees. Any salemen here that want to make a sale? :) |
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| accordt |
| Normally thay would take it, unless you do have the invoice price wrong. I sell trucks and only trucks so I have an idea of how things work. What you could do is tell them you are willing to pay 1k over invoice and ask them to show it to you, alot of people would be willing to do it. I would sell you one for 1k over invoice but I only have used colorado's & canyons |
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| euro777 |
its the beginning of a new month, so those bunder chods have a whole month to hit quota.
If you are a little patient i would say try this method closer to the end of month and you will have a deal.
FYI my roomate has an 05 taco (it is awesome) and shortly after a colleague of his was in the market for exactly the same thing you are. My buddy showed him the tacoma and he really liked it but ended up buying the colorado.
all in all, when the two are compared side by side the toyota kills the colorado in fuel economy, power, acceleration, RESALE VALUE and bottom line the guy who bought the chevy is wishing he purchased the toyota.
food for thought, but you sound like an informed individual so you most likely had a good idea about this comparison. |
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| ptemomo |
Yeah, i've been looking around quite a bit. I dont mind any of the 3. I just want to have the best deal possible. GM 0% financing is pretty appealing right now.
For the Colorado i had the right invoice price. She told me it was right. But she started giving me the BS about the finance contarct fee and pdi fees etc.... Wich im not buying. My offer was 1000$ over invoice plus gst. Final. Im gonna try my luck with Toyota and Nissan and we'll see. Does anyone know if Toyota still have their fix price policy bs??? |
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| Nis13 |
pick up the phone talk to the sales manager and tell him this is what you will pay because you know the invoice, ask him if he wants your business. get him to fax you a BOS and leave a deposit.
not all dealers will take a skinny deal but theres more then a couple that will
and nobody will pay your pdi/prep for you. you can maybe negotiate your admin fee but most people will tell you to go pound sand |
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| SilverE90 |
If you are interested in the Canyon or Colorada I can get you a brand new one for around invoice less 2-3 grand. I would need to know more details on exactly you want to give you a more accurate price. And I will actually show you the dealer invoice so you can see for yourself unlike at the dealership.
The only catch is that since it would be through my company's fleet account you have to write a cheque to my company and as such you have to provide your own financing.
And dealer invoice should be approximately 90% of msrp. Same with Nissan and Toyota. |
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| ptemomo |
| PDI are reimburse by the manufacturer. At least they were when i worked in the industry. So thats bs. As fro me paying 299$ to the dealer to draft some papers, it wont happen if they want my business. |
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| HEWSINATOR |
quote:
Originally posted by ptemomo
PDI are reimburse by the manufacturer. At least they were when i worked in the industry. So thats bs. As fro me paying 299$ to the dealer to draft some papers, it wont happen if they want my business.
I think you are being a bit ambitious refusing to pay any of the fees, especially if financing. If they wanted the doc fee and I was paying cash, that would be a different story. Good luck, but I think you will not ger your thousand bucks over invoice and no fees. |
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| SilverE90 |
Just to give you an idea here is the msrp and dealer invoice on a 2008 Chev Colorado LT Crew Cab 4x4:
Base MSRP: $34255
Base Invoice: $30916
w Options MSRP: $38600
w Options Invoice: $34924
If you bought this exact one through me it would be about $32000 plus gst. Nothing else. |
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| ptemomo |
the on i was looking at
36,060 msrp.
32.456 invoice.
i took consideration gst and 1000$ over.
offered 35000 and they dont want to do it?
So, where do you work again? lol |
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| SilverE90 |
There is no reason they shouldn't take that. On that one I could sell it to you for about 30 plus gst. Financing would be your only issue like I mentioned before. Which dealership was that truck at?
And I would rather not mention work since this would kind of be considered abuse of a fleet account, but it is done lots. lol
If you are interested send me a pm and I will give you my number and we can talk. :beer: |
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| Nis13 |
| invoice is the base cost to the dealership, once the vehicle arrives it needs to be detailed, acid washed, and PDI'd, then you gotta install your dealer add ons, block heater floor matts lug nuts, and whatever the franchise decides to add. A very common one is etch and if every dealership is in on it theres no getting out of it becasue you won't get one elsewhere unless you know the manager and he is willing to waive it for you. There is a cost associated with everything and dealerships make as much money as they do becasue they don't give thier cars away. If you are realistic about the deal you want and you are sure by doing thourough research then you will be happy. Buying a car is usually not a very fun expirence for most people especially if you want it all for less. |
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| SilverE90 |
| ^ the nice thing about a fleet account is you avoid all of that. No pdi charge. The bad part is no full tank of gas, but the good part is not dealer decals and crap on the vehicle. :thumbup: |
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| Nis13 |
| yah sucks to be the fleet manager haha |
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| SilverE90 |
| But at the same time he has big volume, plus he doesn't have the hassle of tire kickers. Most fleet customers just phone and say what they want and if the dealer has it they come pick it up. The sales are easy for the most part. |
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| Nis13 |
| 20 flats a month wouldnt cut it for me |
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| SilverE90 |
| I would imagine most sell way more than that a month. I have 2 dealers I buy over 20 a month from and I am just one customer. |
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| Nis13 |
| yeah i guess domestic dealerships would do larger fleet volumes then imports do... who do you buy for that you need so many a month? |
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| SilverE90 |
| A rental company. I buy about 800 a year from Edmonton dealers. |
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| Nis13 |
whos going to pay for the lien search? the title search? the car proof? the inspection? The running cost for just submitting the application to the banks.
Thats a very ignorant tip. |
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| SilverE90 |
^ they don't do any of that on new cars. And it is all already factored into the cost on other cars. It is totally just extra profit for the dealership.
Even if the vehicle is being financing it is stupid to pay. Sure there is some extra paperwork for the dealership, but they receive a commission from whichever financial institution they sign you up to including if it is dealer financing like GMAC. |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
quote:
Originally posted by SilverE90
^ they don't do any of that on new cars. And it is all already factored into the cost on other cars. It is totally just extra profit for the dealership.
Even if the vehicle is being financing it is stupid to pay. Sure there is some extra paperwork for the dealership, but they receive a commission from whichever financial institution they sign you up to including if it is dealer financing like GMAC.
Interesting.... I just bought my Durango, and their lenders had different fees, one lender wanted a $500 fee, another was $200, the one I went through it was a $20 fee.... I'm not gonna bitch about $20, considering I got the truck for $4000-$5000 less than what any other dealer had a comparable vehicle for. If it was the Dealership adding the fee would it not be same or close for all the "lenders"?
***Edit, I could see it being dumb to pay the fee if you're paying a higher interest rate.. and they're making a couple thousand on "interest" but if it's a 0% interest loan... they gotta make some money.. so I could see a fee then |
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| ~30oZ~ |
quote:
Originally posted by SilverE90
^ they don't do any of that on new cars. And it is all already factored into the cost on other cars. It is totally just extra profit for the dealership.
Even if the vehicle is being financing it is stupid to pay. Sure there is some extra paperwork for the dealership, but they receive a commission from whichever financial institution they sign you up to including if it is dealer financing like GMAC.
Exactly! :)
quote:
Originally posted by Nis13
whos going to pay for the lien search? the title search? the car proof? the inspection? The running cost for just submitting the application to the banks.
Thats a very ignorant tip.
If you're talking about used cars, that's why theres a "reconditioning cost" that covers the inspection and many other things. Car Proof is $60 a month for unlimited searches for dealers. Which is paid for by the profit from many other car deals and could also be paid by the dealer many other ways. |
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| Nis13 |
quote:
Originally posted by ~30oZ~
Exactly! :)
If you're talking about used cars, that's why theres a "reconditioning cost" that covers the inspection and many other things. Car Proof is $60 a month for unlimited searches for dealers. Which is paid for by the profit from many other car deals and could also be paid by the dealer many other ways.
Im not trying to come accross rude or as a jackass by any means but it's people like your self who think they know alot that have a hard time buying a car. Buying a car should be a good expirence. |
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| ~30oZ~ |
quote:
Originally posted by Nis13
Im not trying to come accross rude or as a jackass by any means but it's people like your self who think they know alot that have a hard time buying a car. Buying a car should be a good expirence.
I'm actually a sales person. I've been thinking about my first post and it is a bit ignorant because there might be another story to why they charge those stupid IMO Admin, Doc or what ever you wanna call it fees so I'll edit my post. Sorry for the ignorance. |
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| HEWSINATOR |
quote:
Originally posted by SilverE90
Even if the vehicle is being financing it is stupid to pay. Sure there is some extra paperwork for the dealership, but they receive a commission from whichever financial institution they sign you up to including if it is dealer financing like GMAC.
Not all lenders give a commission or anything to the dealer. And there is the lender's doc fee that needs to be paid by somebody. |
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| SilverE90 |
^ who charges this 'lender's doc fee'?
I am an accountant in the industry so I see the books and I know there are a lot of charges or fees that don't have any costs associated with them. They are just 'made up' for extra profit. :thumbup: |
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| HEWSINATOR |
| The lenders. If you get a loan, there will often be fees from the lending institution. Say I buy a car from Dealer X and use credit company Y. Y will often (if not always) have its own doc fee. |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
quote:
Originally posted by HEWSINATOR
The lenders. If you get a loan, there will often be fees from the lending institution. Say I buy a car from Dealer X and use credit company Y. Y will often (if not always) have its own doc fee.
Yeah, thats what I was saying... most higher risk lenders the Doc fee is $300-$500, I lucked out and mine was $20. |
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| SilverE90 |
Well every major bank as well as GMAC and Chrysler Financial do not charge any fees. I have contracts with 8 different places for financing.
They all give the dealer commission because of the business they send their way and because the dealer deals with the paperwork and just submits it online to the lender.
I happen to have a dealer finance contracts in front of me from one of the 'big' banks. We pay nothing and if the paperwork is approved they will pay anywhere from a low of $100 to a high of 2.5% of the value of the financing to the dealer depending on the amount/term/rate.
Maybe some place does charge a fee, but I doubt any major place will. It is most likely a made up fee on the dealer side.
Sad, but true. |
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| HEWSINATOR |
I will admit I can not say for the major banks and the manufacturer's own credit companies, but I know that other used finaners do. The way you described the process makes it sound like you are looking at what the dealer pays not the customer. Is it possible that the customer pays this fee to the credit institution?
I am by no means an expert, but I do know that there are fees charged by the institutions, not just the dealer (the ones that are charged by the dealer which often the credit company will allow the dealer to charge up to X amount). |
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| SilverE90 |
The contracts I am referring to above are for both new and used vehicles. All of the major banks offer commssion based vehicle financing to dealerships and even used car lots. The only stipulation is that a certain percentage of the applications be approved each month. And usually there is a minimum they like to see but it is as small as 5 a month.
And the reason for the percentage is that if you own a dealer or used car lot and you send in 20 applications a month for financing to the bank and only 1-2 get approved each month you end of giving them more paperwork than it is worth to them so they will just cancel your contract with them.
The dealer can charge whatever kind of fees to the customer they may want and think they can get away with but it is nothing that comes from the financing companies.
And I am referring to what the dealer pays but in these situations the customer has nothing to do with the lender except that in the end the lender with automatically withdraw the monthly payments from the customer. |
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| Nis13 |
| every bank chrages a PPSA fee its usually 45 dollars. Dealers don't collect any form of commisions or reserves for subvented rates either. Which almost every dealer is offering right now |
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| shortie |
interesting thread... I have actually worked as a car sales person.. as well as now am working as one of them 'lenders' :p
I have no real comments.. other than it totally depends on the dealership and the lender as to who gets what commissions and fees used, etc...
plus, its all up for bargaining in a way - we used to absorb the fees for docs but then wouldnt lower the price on a vehicle more... likewise, would tell people if they pay the fees we will lower the price accordingly... its all a matter of making the customer happy... if there is room to play, then they will make it seem like you are getting a deal by not charging the fees versus lowering the buy price... eitherway, as long as they make their money off the vehicle, they are happy, and some vehicles have a bigger markup than others, thus absorbing a few hun bucks isnt a massive deal...
my .02 |
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