| Eagle Talon (re)build Thread - Click HERE for Original Thread |
| anschutz_93 |
Let me first say that dsm's are a very reliable car, when properly maintained they will last as long as any turbo car out there... Unfortunately, my car hated life. At 185k km my 1995 Eagle Talon first started shifting funny, then started running funny, then it was totally fucked. Crankwalk is quite rare even in 2G dsm's and quite often is misdiagnosed by some "mechanic" who doesn't know what they are talking about. With a quarter inch of horizontal play in my crank, I think its safe to say that my crank is a little sloppy...
My goals for this car is a decent winter beater, and by winter beater I mean a car that can be driven for the 10 months of the year that any respectable car shouldn't leave the garage... My timeframe was originally September, but I'm working on it every night so It will probably be done sometime next week. I'm not looking for a lot of power, pretty much just a fresh motor with a few improvements. I'm using only OEM for critical parts, a few decent aftermarket improvements and a few cheapo parts on things I just don't give a shit about (topline FTW!). Total cost of the project will be ~$3500.
I'm about half done right now but here is what has happened so far...
First I bought a donor car, a 1992 Talon tsi awd, 6/4 combo. She was a little beat up, but she ran great (recently rebuilt motor, I believe it has 13k on it)
   
This was the first time I had done more than a cv shaft so I made a bit of a mess (oil, coolant, transmission fluid, break fluid... I think more ended up on the ground then in my little collection container). I had to scrub my floor down and use break cleaner in a couple spots; she was slick. Total time up to this point was ~10hrs (I wasted a lot of time; everything that could come off did come off... BTW if you need any 1G dsm parts hit me up)
This was about a month ago. I still had school at the time and worked Saturdays so the only opportunity I had to get things done was Sunday (and come Sunday I'm in no shape to work on cars). I had graduation, then took off for a couple weekends, then didn't feel like doing anything. This has been on the back burner for a while, hopefully I can keep interest this time. |
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| anschutz_93 |
Finally, here's the beast:
(please take note of those rust bubbles on the strut towers... they will be brought up later and will have a entire post to themselves)
Block, all cleaned up and painted. Stock rebuild, balance shaft removed... pretty lame but it will get the job done.
The head: filled with stockness and boring. Waiting for cams...
A little pointer here to anyone installing ARP head studs in their dsm. Put the washers into place before you install the studs, If you don't the valve springs prevent the washer from going into place. They also supply you with a lot of excess moly lube, so you don't have to use it sparingly.
Please notice my lack of engine stand... I put everything together either with the block upside down or balanced on a bunch of wood. Definitely not the best way to do things but what can you do.
Garbage cams, crank seal, rollers, bridge things which keep the cam in place ect. Still waiting on new cams.
Misc. driveline parts and bushings
 I opted for the act 2100 rather than the 2600 because this is a DD and I won't need the extra holding capabilities of the 2600. I believe that the 2100 is good for 12 second passes, I won't be getting anything close to this with the FP28 so the 2100 should do fine.
I've now have about 5 hours into stripping down my 2G over the last couple nights. I've had to disassemble the entire front end for the Energy suspension bushing kit. I'm pretty pleased, I've only snapped two bolts thus far (which is much better than taking apart the 1G). I've got the picture of my current progress in the camera which I forgot in the garage but I'll get them up later. I've also got a "gooder" post coming up about my great welding skills (remember those rust bubbles...). |
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| nismo_silvia |
| ur my hero for some reason |
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| eclipse.soul |
| ^lol...is this by any chance Danny? or something like that...used to be dmak...anyways nice to see another DSM owner out there :) |
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| anschutz_93 |
quote:
Originally posted by eclipse.soul
^lol...is this by any chance Danny? or something like that...used to be dmak...anyways nice to see another DSM owner out there :)
Nope, it's Matt. I bought it off Danny a little over a year ago. |
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| flatboy |
Looks like a cool project, but I love this
'Let me first say that dsm's are a very reliable car'
:lol: |
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| FAMILY GUY |
quote:
Originally posted by flatboy
Looks like a cool project, but I love this
'Let me first say that dsm's are a very reliable car'
:lol:
I've had my 91 for just over a year now and it's been very reliable. The only thing I HAD to replace was the axles, mind you I don't beat the $hit out of it either. |
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| project.D. |
quote:
Originally posted by flatboy
Looks like a cool project, but I love this
'Let me first say that dsm's are a very reliable car'
:lol:
I'm pretty sure he was being serious. Too often do DSM's get a bad rap due to being bagged, modded to 500whp without any consideration for regular maintenance etc...It's usually the owner that's the culprit.
Anschutz, I'm somewhat jealous...There's nothing like a good old parts car strip down, motor rebuild and all the other good stuff when you have the time (summer vacation FTW!) and money (not so good for me :D ). Just wait till you see the grin on your face when you're done and she's running like a top.
BTW, DSMs are excellent cars, nothing beats 'free-mods' and the DSM community.:thumbup: I was sooo close to buying a 1g TSi FWD from EvilColt, was a beautiful car and I had my heart set on it completely. Financial matters didn't work out as anticipated though. Fast forwad 3 or 4 months later and I've got one of the other cars I was searching for for a good half a year or so, my 86. Don't regret it at all, learning so much as time goes on and the gremlins get worked out.
Good luck, keep us updated. |
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| Dan_s_young |
| Hmmm are you in sherwood park? Think I have seen this car a few times, and I went to nait at the same time as Danny so I saw the car around a bunch... |
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| anschutz_93 |
quote:
Originally posted by Dan_s_young
Hmmm are you in sherwood park? Think I have seen this car a few times, and I went to nait at the same time as Danny so I saw the car around a bunch...
Yep, I live/go to school in the Park.
Ughh, only 10:50 right now, I didn't last long tonight lol. I'm just uploading my pictures and will post my current progress. It's been three days of disassembly already and the engine isn't out yet but its getting there. On the plus side I found a bung on my 02 chamber that I didn't know about, EGT gauge here I come. |
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| anschutz_93 |
So, last night Block met the head. Cometic head gasket and ARP head studs. If I were to do things again, I would have gotten the Mitsubishi MLS headgasket instead, but no worries I won't be blowing this one out anyways. All that is left is install timing belt/components, swap accessory bracket from my other engine and she is done. <1hr left on this one... Oh and I forgot, cams are no longer coming due to error during ordering (company no longer has them in stock). I will be reusing the cams out of my other engine for the time being.
New engine looking sexy:
Last night I also began doing the actual disassembly. Drained and removed radiator (and didn't make mistake of completely removing drain plug then opening up rad cap, again...). Took off the hood, fenders, fender wells ect. Anyways this is what I came home to tonight:
And after a couple more hours I was at this point:
A monster turbo :rolleyes: (lol... at least it doesn't have much lag)
1G vs 2G Throttle body, I'm running the 1G throttle body with the 2G base bolted on (Water lines were a bit different between the two, probably wouldn't have mattered but better safe than throwing tools down the street when something doesn't line up at 2:30am!) Looking at this picture now you can't really see the difference but the 1G has a 1cm larger diameter.
How I ended the night. Finished with the easy task of removing cruise control. If anyone has a 2G non-cruise cable for sale please shoot me a PM. I'll be glad to get some room back in my engine bay.
Back to those rust bubbles on the strut towers. A lot of cars have a strut tower which is formed by using two thin pieces of metal being punched together into form; dsm's have this style of strut tower (along with 90% of other cars on the road). The problem with this is they rust from the inside, with minimal damage visible on the outside. On my car the bubbles have been there for a good 10 months or so, I've never thought much of them because a) the were really small and b) they weren't getting any bigger. I have seen many pictures of 2G dsms with fist size holes in the strut tower due to this rust (its sick, they look like Honda's). When I brought my car into the garage a couple days ago I was curious when I saw that the rust bubbles which were still only bubbles, had finally flaked the paint. I tapped on them with a 12mm wrench and it went right through... fuck me! Well, this definitely isn't safe, but me being the optimist I am decided that this is a good time for improvement. I'm going to cut and form a repair patch for both sides, spot weld the entire engine bay and finish it off with bodyfiller and paint so it looks good as new. As of right now all I have done is knocked some holes in my car...
Anyways heres the hole, other side is much the same:
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| beeb |
Nice build!!
I may need some pointers as I just procured a 6 bolt and will be swapping that bad boy in once its fully built |
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| project.D. |
You're lucky that balance shaft belt didn't rape the timing belt when it snapped...as so often the case haha. But really, you needed a rebuild one way or the other.
Nice progress. |
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| anschutz_93 |
quote:
Originally posted by project.D.
You're lucky that balance shaft belt didn't rape the timing belt when it snapped...as so often the case haha. But really, you needed a rebuild one way or the other.
Nice progress.
Actually it did.... Tonight putting the timing belt on the new motor I accidently grabbed the old one (had it and the new timing belt hanging on something). I put it on, tightened it, and right after the exhaust gear there was a 1" deep cut in it! That would have been bad... very bad lol. Its a good thing I had not driven the car hard the last couple times I had it out or it would have fucked the head.
Mainly for beeb but for anyone else doing this swap...
The 2G intake cam gear doesn't clear the head. It has a head shield that the 1G does not. Intake and exhaust gears are the same, hence you do not need to label them.
The 1G timing belt cover had to be trimmed and the two inside spacer bars cut off to get over the motor mount. Use a dremel tool rather than sidecutters or you will crack the plastic. It would be almost impossible to use the 2G timing belt cover, it would need to be cut in 4-5 places.
Use the 6bolt tensioner arm.
When removing old bushings/motor mounts, light them on fire. They burn for a good 10 minutes which is kinda cool and then they just kinda droop out lol.
And just a general thing to make assembly easier, when assembling your new engine just take parts directly off your old engine and swap them in, its way easier than labeling bolts and remembering where you put them.
I made a tally of lost tools so far.... One 3/8" ratchet, one 12mm socket, one 12 mm wrench. Hopefully I find them at one point, I think the socket is on the ratchet somewhere :confused: |
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| beeb |
quote:
Originally posted by anschutz_93
Actually it did.... Tonight putting the timing belt on the new motor I accidently grabbed the old one (had it and the new timing belt hanging on something). I put it on, tightened it, and right after the exhaust gear there was a 1" deep cut in it! That would have been bad... very bad lol. Its a good thing I had not driven the car hard the last couple times I had it out or it would have fucked the head.
Mainly for beeb but for anyone else doing this swap...
The 2G intake cam gear doesn't clear the head. It has a head shield that the 1G does not. Intake and exhaust gears are the same, hence you do not need to label them.
The 1G timing belt cover had to be trimmed and the two inside spacer bars cut off to get over the motor mount. Use a dremel tool rather than sidecutters or you will crack the plastic. It would be almost impossible to use the 2G timing belt cover, it would need to be cut in 4-5 places.
Use the 6bolt tensioner arm.
When removing old bushings/motor mounts, light them on fire. They burn for a good 10 minutes which is kinda cool and then they just kinda droop out lol.
And just a general thing to make assembly easier, when assembling your new engine just take parts directly off your old engine and swap them in, its way easier than labeling bolts and remembering where you put them.
I made a tally of lost tools so far.... One 3/8" ratchet, one 12mm socket, one 12 mm wrench. Hopefully I find them at one point, I think the socket is on the ratchet somewhere :confused:
well so far I have a 2 bolt block, and 6 bolt head. thats it.
I will be amassing parts over the winter and building the engine slowly in my kitchen.
the plan is to get a full eagle forged rotating assembly ( crank, pistons, rods) a mild port on the head, with ferra valves some BC springs, and 272 cams. Then strap a punishment racing exhaust manifold on it and a 50 trim turbo.
keeping in mind the only mechanical thing ive ever done to a car thus far is change the spark plugs :P |
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| anschutz_93 |
ahh I see what you are doing...
You might want to consider using the 7bolt head if you can get a hold of one. The intake runners are slightly smaller but from reading up it will produce "better" power. The 1G heads have larger runners but they aren't as direct to the cylinders, they give better power stock but a worse torque curve. A modified 2G head is better than a modified 1G head. You can also only port the exhaust side, to port the intake side is a real skill and won't yield much improvement unless you are already in the 8's.
Looks like you will be making a monster. |
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| beeb |
quote:
Originally posted by anschutz_93
ahh I see what you are doing...
You might want to consider using the 7bolt head if you can get a hold of one. The intake runners are slightly smaller but from reading up it will produce "better" power. The 1G heads have larger runners but they aren't as direct to the cylinders, they give better power stock but a worse torque curve. A modified 2G head is better than a modified 1G head. You can also only port the exhaust side, to port the intake side is a real skill and won't yield much improvement unless you are already in the 8's.
Looks like you will be making a monster.
well i want the engine to be able to handle all future plans.. like if I decide to go with a GT35R or something.
Plus if its done right the first time I don't have to worry about it.
I am sending the head to a machine shop to get all the work done. I am aware of the drawbacks of a 1G head. But its what I have right now so its what im going to work with. |
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| Quinnc |
Best looking dsm in the facey parking lot :blue:
Nice build man, good to see you taking care of that beast. |
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| anschutz_93 |
quote:
Originally posted by Quinnc
Best looking dsm in the facey parking lot :blue:
Nice build man, good to see you taking care of that beast.
Thanks, but there wasn't much competition @ facey for that title... One N/A 1G and a poor laser rs that isn't long for this world (and a couple N/A 3ki's). Your Joel's friend with the yellow crx right?
I lost my camera and the cell I'm using now doesn't have one, so I don't know when I will get an update up. The engine is complete and ready to go in. I might have to rip the head off to address a head gasket issue but I won't know until it I get it running...
I'm waiting on a $30 part of all things before I finish this thing up (TOB wear sleeve, if you have one I will give you $60 for it!). I'm just doing bushing now, cleaning the undercarriage (NEVER UNDERCOAT YOUR CAR! lol the shit is horrible) and cleaning up control arms and shit.
Hopefully I get the part in Friday and I will get this project finished on Saturday (My only day off work in the last 3 weeks... ugghhh) |
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| Quinnc |
| ya thats me, the little rice rocket everyone wants to race :rolleyes: |
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| Flip |
I probably would've bought this car for parts if I was around at the time. Good to see you're taking care of it, I was worried when I saw it parked outside Canadian Tire after it was sold.
-You don't need to run those coolant lines to the throttle body, for next time. |
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| Psi |
quote:
Originally posted by Quinnc
Best looking dsm in the facey parking lot :blue:
Nice build man, good to see you taking care of that beast.
Your two years too late. My 1990 was top dog back in 2006
Nice build:thumbup: |
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| anschutz_93 |
quote:
Originally posted by Flip
I probably would've bought this car for parts if I was around at the time. Good to see you're taking care of it, I was worried when I saw it parked outside Canadian Tire after it was sold.
-You don't need to run those coolant lines to the throttle body, for next time.
:lol: it was at CT a lot, I used to work there.
hmm are you sure I don't need coolant to the throttle body in winter? If I only drove it in summer I would do the FIAV blockoff plate but I thought I needed the extra heat for winter starts...
quote:
Originally posted by Psi
Your two years too late. My 1990 was top dog back in 2006
Nice build:thumbup:
I was at Facey in '06, but unfortunately I didn't have my license yet so I walked... lol back then I was just getting into cars and I thought mazda mx6's were awsome. I seem to remember a purple talon, was that yours? |
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| ~sanj~ |
| indeed about the purple talon |
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