| beeb |
| hey does anyone know if we are going to be getting E85 in edmonton? |
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| xbr50 |
Chances are.. not anytime soon.. and I hope we dont.
"Lets try and solve one crisis by making another bigger!" |
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| Invalid Zero |
| Yeah lets create global food shortages so we don't burn fossil fuels! |
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| Tech2 |
| Expensive gas or expensive food? I'll take expensive gas. |
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| oldraven |
| Well, Ethanol doesn't have to be made from food. |
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| beeb |
| i just want to run higher octane for cheaper |
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| RotaryJunkie13B |
quote:
Originally posted by beeb
i just want to run higher octane for cheaper
... WOW... stop being cheap and get those brakes done to or wheel bearing either or.. squeek squeek squeek |
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| POX |
quote:
Originally posted by oldraven
Well, Ethanol doesn't have to be made from food.
true but most of the tech out there right now is for the use of corn |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by POX
true but most of the tech out there right now is for the use of corn
Yeah. Thank Corn Growers and their lobbyists for that.
Soon you'll all be able to run your cars on shit, though. Literally! :thumbup:
http://forums.780tuners.com/showthr...;threadid=83945 |
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| Eclipser |
| You know when you use E85 to make more power, you use a lot more of it. So not really saving all that much. That's why all those E85 guys up upgrading to 1600cc injectors right away, because they need it. |
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| beeb |
quote:
Originally posted by RotaryJunkie13B
... WOW... stop being cheap and get those brakes done to or wheel bearing either or.. squeek squeek squeek
just waiting for parts |
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| tokes |
quote:
Originally posted by Eclipser
You know when you use E85 to make more power, you use a lot more of it. So not really saving all that much. That's why all those E85 guys up upgrading to 1600cc injectors right away, because they need it.
In some places in the US they're paying 4.00 per gallon for premium and 2.90 a gallon for E85. You need to add about 35% fuel at cruise/WOT to make up for the ethanol, but you still save money in the long run because of the fuel being cheaper.
Oh, and the fact that there are B16 motors making 700 WHP on E85 and Supras making 1000+ WHP on E85 is enough to make me not give a shit how big of injectors I'll have to buy. It's cheaper than race gas any way you cut it. |
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| beeb |
quote:
Originally posted by tokes
In some places in the US they're paying 4.00 per gallon for premium and 2.90 a gallon for E85. You need to add about 35% fuel at cruise/WOT to make up for the ethanol, but you still save money in the long run because of the fuel being cheaper.
Oh, and the fact that there are B16 motors making 700 WHP on E85 and Supras making 1000+ WHP on E85 is enough to make me not give a shit how big of injectors I'll have to buy. It's cheaper than race gas any way you cut it.
Thats exactly why I want to run it.. although I won't be posting those kinds of numbers. |
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| RADRIDE |
Just make sure your fuel system can handle E85 or you will dry out seals.
Actually if you do the math $2.90 per gallon E85 will cost you the same as premium because you will be filling up 35% sooner.
R.K. |
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| beeb |
| 1st we have to get e85 before i can even start worrying about that |
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| ehos |
quote:
Originally posted by Invalid Zero
Yeah lets create global food shortages so we don't burn fossil fuels!
Wrong.
By Steve Grasz
Myth 1: Ethanol is made from "food grains."
Fact: Ethanol is made from "feed grains" such as corn and sorghum. "Food grains" usually refers to wheat and rice. Blaming ethanol for wheat and rice shortages is unfounded. The type of corn used to produce ethanol is otherwise used primarily for livestock feed (about 90 percent); not for human consumption.
Myth 2: Ethanol "consumes" a huge share of U.S. corn production.
Fact: In 2006, U.S. farmers produced 10.74 billion bushels of corn and 1.8 billion bushels went to produce ethanol. The share going to ethanol is increasing.
However, making ethanol does not "consume" the corn. Ethanol production separates the starch from the other components. The protein and other nutrients remain, but in a less bulky form. One-third of the corn is converted to a high value livestock feed called distillers grain (by dry milling) or corn gluten feed (by wet milling).
Myth 3: Use of corn for ethanol production is creating food shortages and causing starvation around the world.
Fact: The U.S. is exporting more corn today than at any time in history. Exports in 2007-08 were 2.25 billion bushels, 6 percent more than in 2006-07. The U.S. Department of Agriculture recently raised its corn export estimates to 2.5 billion bushels. This puts corn exports at 63 million metric tons, a new record.
Myth 4: Ethanol is responsible for high food prices.
Fact: The price of corn is a very small factor in overall food prices. Only about 10 percent of U.S. corn is processed directly into human food products (such as corn syrup, starch and cereals). In contrast, the price of oil has a significant impact on food prices, as does the value of the dollar. Some analysts have estimated that oil prices would be 15 percent higher but for ethanol production and its replacement of large quantities of petroleum.
Here is the full essay:
Ethonal Production isn't reducing food supplies |
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| Tech2 |
Feed grains taken away from feeding cattle, or sold after expensive processing means either ranchers pay more for feed, or put the cows to pasture. Cows in pasture take an extra year to mature. Either way, the extra cost gets passed down the line. At least that's what my farmer/rancher uncle says :dunno: .
I'm pretty concerned about ethanol as a fuel savior. Each new acre of whatever grown specifically for fuel takes a whole lot of diesel for tractors and combines and shit. Even if you had these vehicles running on ethanol, there's something about thermodynamics that doesn't jive.
But I did hear somewhere that there is a new process where the starches in corn cobs and husks can be used after the food corn has been taken, with little or no pre-processing. That sounds pretty good to me.
Farming economics are all fucked though, being the world's most subsidized industry and all. |
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| xbr50 |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
Here is the full essay:
Ethonal Production isn't reducing food supplies
True it isnt... but it IS driving the prices of food made by crops. Farmers can sell crops to ethanol plants for much more than if they sold them to food producers. |
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| ehos |
There's no correlation between high food prices and the minuscule ethanol 'push' the US started. Brazil has been using sugarcane -> ethanol forever and why hasn't sugar price gone up increasingly over that span?
EVERYTHING has gone up in price. Every single natural resource. Inflation is high worldwide. To say it's because of E85 is ignorant. |
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| ehos |
quote:
Originally posted by xbr50
True it isnt... but it IS driving the prices of food made by crops. Farmers can sell crops to ethanol plants for much more than if they sold them to food producers.
Oh noes, we're crying about capitalism now? I'm probably the most anti-capitalist guy here, but this is a stretch for an anti-ethanol argument....
I can see 'better' alternatives being a good anti-ethanol argument. Or they have too much political power (lobbies) or a few others (ie subsidies to E85 and not regular gasoline), but the food ones make no sense at all.... |
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| Tech2 |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
There's no correlation between high food prices and the minuscule ethanol 'push' the US started.
HOLY SHIT!!! Ehos NOT blaming the US for something??? I gotta save this post somewhere! :)
quote:
Brazil has been using sugarcane -> ethanol forever and why hasn't sugar price gone up increasingly over that span?
Sugarcane isn't a staple. Corn is. The thing with farming of whatever crop for food or fuel or whatever is that the economics are skewed due to the government subsidies all over the world. It's not exactly a streamlined market.
The more ethanol can be produced from waste products, the sweeter the tech. It's not a full solution to energy issues, but we'd do better with a multifaceted approach anyways. |
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| beeb |
okay.. does anyone know if there will be E85 in edmonton any time soon?
im putting together an engine and E85 will be a deciding factor in how big the turbo is |
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| xbr50 |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
Oh noes, we're crying about capitalism now? I'm probably the most anti-capitalist guy here, but this is a stretch for an anti-ethanol argument....
I can see 'better' alternatives being a good anti-ethanol argument. Or they have too much political power (lobbies) or a few others (ie subsidies to E85 and not regular gasoline), but the food ones make no sense at all....
Ehos.. you have to understand there has been MANY studies done... some say it is no doubt increasing food prices, some say it isnt. I for one have a very open mind and I DO take both sides into consideration, something you fail to do.
So when you have a ongoing arguement on whether ethanol is driving food prices up or not, I think it's stupid to say "no it's not" and continue to push towards E85. We rather be careful and take the other side before our dependance of E85 gets to the point where an increase in food prices can very well be true.
Regardless, E85 is not the answer to "global warming" and the oil crisis. I rather have people believe E85 is the devil than the answer. |
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| oldraven |
Anyone else sick of hearing gas jockeys talk about 'the first law of thermodynamics'? It's the word of the day, if that day was lasting two years. You're not fooling anybody. :rolleyes:
As far as Ethanol, or any other fuel source being 'The Answer', the problem we find ourselves in to begin with is that we're looking for one magical solution to everything. The world economies are being trashed because we depend on one source of energy.
There is room for Ethanol, and yes, even E85, in the solution. Bio fuels, hydrogen, Li-Ion, petroleum (yes, it still has its uses, and would be a lot cheaper as one form of fuel compared to being the form of fuel). I don't think we'll ever see economic stability in our energy hungry societies until we have at least five mainstream forms of energy storage. That way if one commodity skyrockets or tanks, we'll have the others there to keep transportation costs and other related costs from rising or falling with them (don't expect any energy related commodity to drop in value, though).
Point? Stop looking at Ethanol as a failed attempt at finding THE solution to our problems. Anything that can help will help. |
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| anschutz_93 |
quote:
Originally posted by beeb
okay.. does anyone know if there will be E85 in edmonton any time soon?
im putting together an engine and E85 will be a deciding factor in how big the turbo is
I would look into wet injection, even if we do get a couple E85 pumps chances are they will be few and far between. The tanks for the methanol kits will last 300-500km, so if you want to head out of town or something you still have that option. |
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| ehos |
I agree with you oldraven, we can't duck our heads in the sand and say without a doubt that E85 isn't the answer. At least it's 'something'. We need to start doing something, then consumers can make their own choice.
If E85 was useless, then NO one would buy it. If it was increasing food prices (there's no proof of that), then all farmers would grow corn and become filthy rich (then too much supply would bring down corn prices...). But as I see the stats, that's not happening. And I think KCL prices have a bigger effect on food prices than the tiny bit of E85 being produced.
Price of everything has gone up (for those who haven't noticed). Every natural resource is up in price. It's the same old thing, people are afraid of change. Change leads to FUD.
Tech2: I used to love the US and Americans. When the Bushes and Clintons leave office for good, I have a feeling the US of A will become a powerhouse again. And I'll go back to cheering for them again. It's in our (Canadian) best interests to see a strong US. |
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| anschutz_93 |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
Tech2: I used to love the US and Americans. When the Bushes and Clintons leave office for good, I have a feeling the US of A will become a powerhouse again. And I'll go back to cheering for them again. It's in our (Canadian) best interests to see a strong US.
Nothing wrong with the Clinton administration... look how good their economy was at the time! |
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