| RADRIDE |
Thats good for them. Looks like the Chinese like shitty cars and trucks and now Ford and GM found a dumping ground for them:lol: .
R.K. |
|
|
| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by RADRIDE
Thats good for them. Looks like the Chinese like shitty cars and trucks and now Ford and GM found a dumping ground for them:lol: .
R.K.
They learned that from the current #1.;) |
|
|
| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by RADRIDE
Looks like the Chinese like shitty cars and trucks and now Ford and GM found a dumping ground for them:lol: .
You said it, I was thinking it. :lol: |
|
|
| shortie |
| sweet, maybe they will actually start paying out bonuses this quarter... A+ for chinese buying shitty cars |
|
|
| oldraven |
Wait. We're talking Buick here, right? What about an Allure (LaCrosse) makes it a shittier car than a Camry? I'd like to know, because I can't find a single thing. Buick is tied for first with Lexus for vehicle dependability.
Too many people talking our their ass here. |
|
|
| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by oldraven
Wait. We're talking Buick here, right? What about an Allure (LaCrosse) makes it a shittier car than a Camry? I'd like to know, because I can't find a single thing. Buick is tied for first with Lexus for vehicle dependability.
Too many people talking our their ass here.
Hold on a sec there. There is more to a person's perception of "quality/goodness" than just how reliable it is. There's way more to it than that. The Buick may never break down, but you'd still have a hard time convincing me it's a "nice" car.
The buick may not be a good example here but a car could run for 400,000 km trouble free and still be a perceived as a piece of crap by some due to a myriad of other reasons. (and we've discussed some of those reasons before, so I don't think it's necessary to get into it again). |
|
|
| oldraven |
What does it take, then, to change public perception? People complained domestics were unreliable. That hasn't been an issue for some time. People complained they had poor 'fit and finish' (a decidedly subjective judgement) and so initial quality levels have risen (for the most part). Even interior materials have improved drastically. Some complain they didn't build desirable cars. What does that have to do with the North American market? Take a look at the top selling cars here and you'll see what I mean by that. Besides, they build plenty of desirable vehicles now.
It's simply gotten to the point where people will trash talk the domestics because it's what they're used to doing, and their friends might make fun of them if they actually gave a shunned car maker its due. Inzane, buddy, I feel like I've been beating my head off this wall for an awfully long time. |
|
|
| SilverE90 |
I hate to admit it, but the Ford Fusion actually has softer dash and door panels than my 2006 3 series. lol
I don't want to get into the arguement but my views are somewhere in between the extreme of both of you guys but please continue, it is fun to watch. :beer: |
|
|
| Cheverz |
Jesus, domestics have good cars import's have good cars
It all depends on the fucking car and engine/trans ect.
As well i'd take a viper over a GTR anyday. Both market's have nice car's and i hope somehow challengers/mustangs/camaro's end up over sea's and are a big hit i think they would be over there just brings more money to our car market. |
|
|
| chrenan |
quote:
Originally posted by oldraven
Some complain they didn't build desirable cars. What does that have to do with the North American market? Take a look at the top selling cars here and you'll see what I mean by that. Besides, they build plenty of desirable vehicles now.
I'm in the group that feels the Big Three don't make desireable cars. I want a small sedan with a manual transmission (with clutch pedal!), rear wheel drive (or at least AWD, no FWD) and a decent amount of power. Is this available from a North American manufacturer? |
|
|
| sick_boy |
quote:
Originally posted by BARNSEY
saab
if ia m correct all older saabs were front wheel drive and now they making all wheel drive car.... and as to the topic i would take a ford or gm truck product any day over nissan, toyota trucks in my opinion and again i am sure you guys will think different nissan titan and those UGLY toyota tundras, are just show trucks, they are not made for work they are just a normal truck which people who work in the office would buy, then GM and fords have real work trucks for towing, pulling and etc i just cant see myself towing a 20" trailer with a toyota or nissan. i am sure you guya think differently
Edit: forgot about dodge trucks, but i am not a dodge guy, i love GM and fords take second place in my books. |
|
|
| Inzane |
What do "trucks" have to do with anything here? Who gives a shit about trucks? :dunno:
Besides, I doubt that's what's selling over in China. |
|
|
| sick_boy |
| i know you talking about cars, but i am just saying in general since you guys started to talk about domoestic vs imports wuality, use and shit |
|
|
| Inzane |
Even *I* would shop domestic if I needed a full-size pickup truck. :eek:
Thankfully I don't. I think I'd rather own a mini-van (shudder) before I'd want a pickup truck. |
|
|
| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by chrenan
I'm in the group that feels the Big Three don't make desireable cars. I want a small sedan with a manual transmission (with clutch pedal!), rear wheel drive (or at least AWD, no FWD) and a decent amount of power. Is this available from a North American manufacturer?
Well, they make vehicles that people find desirable. Maybe not exactly what you're looking for, though. I think the Manual Transmission is the key here. So many N.A.'s buying automatics, it's no wonder they don't offer them in most compacts/mid-sizes. Still, with fuel economy numbers being as important as they are, I think more and more people would be willing to learn the skill.
As for desirable cars that they have now (even if the market has completely shut them out), here are a few.
Corvette
Viper
Mustang
Solstice/Sky
Challenger
Malibu
Focus (just by the numbers, gaggable)
Cobalt SS
Enclave (lesser so the Outlook/Acadia)
Astra
Escalade
CTS
G8
Hummers (they're still desirable, if not a smart choice)
Flex
Edge
MKS
Wrangler
Grand Cherokee (count them on your next commute. I think you'd be shocked how many are out there)
Liberty (diesel)
And people are chomping at the bit waiting for the Volt and PHEV Vue. |
|
|
| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by oldraven
As for desirable cars that they have now (even if the market has completely shut them out), here are a few.
Corvette - C6 yes, C5 so-so.
Viper - yes
Mustang - mmm...maybe a little. The GT500 is certainly nice.
Solstice/Sky - not bad, I'd buy a miata though.
Challenger - I'll admit, it's cool.
Malibu - the *new* one has been rated well. The old ones were crap.
Focus (just by the numbers, gaggable) - they drove nice
Cobalt SS - not desirable to me. (J-body stigma)
Enclave (lesser so the Outlook/Acadia) - don't really know what that is. ??
Astra - desirable?
Escalade - lol, not my market niche.
CTS - another car that's getting good ratings LATELY. I won't be cross-shopping it though when I look at G35s, 3-series, etc.
G8 - lol, so pontiac has to reach out to overseas divisions to finally come up with a 'decent' family car. (G6s, grand ams, grand prixs... all crap).
Hummers - see escalade comment
Flex - don't even know what that is. ??
Edge - ??
MKS - ??
Wrangler - not my style, but they're obviously desirable to some
Grand Cherokee - no opinion
Liberty (diesel) - no opinion |
|
|
| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by oldraven
Desirable to Inzane and desirable to the General Public are not one in the same.
Yeah, yeah. But come on, I had to play. :)
quote:
If you don't know what an Enclave is, you must really shut out anything that involves Domestic news. :p
:D You know me. And in this instance we're talking specifically GM domestic news.
quote:
It's a Buick that I'd kill to have. Yeah, they actually have one of those. A Buick that pretty much got everything right......
What does it do that a German or Japanese equivalent doesn't? |
|
|
| Inzane |
Ok, so I scanned over the wheels article..... interesting.
Now note some of the comments I've highlighted below. It at least suggests that going in, I wasn't alone in my skepticism and/or bias.
quote:
Wasn't it just yesterday when the prognosis for GM was so grim it seemed the only humane response was to take the old General out behind the barn and shoot it?
..
the North American arm of General Motors. A once sketchy and fractured product lineup
..
But most importantly, the execution and quality of materials is very good. Using "craftsmanship" and "GM interior" in the same sentence? Hath hell frozen over?
..
Does it drive like a Buick?
If you mean wallowy and numb, then the answer is "no."
..
isn't trying to be something it's not. No pretenses of Euro-bahn-bashing or Japanese-high-tech-chic here.
..
It is resolutely American, and more important, brings back some of the old order in GM's lineup. Like when owning a Buick was something special.
So anyway, as per the review it shows promise. If I was shopping for an SUV in that price category though, I'd have to dig deeper to see what reasons would exist to buy the Buick over something like the X5 or the Lexus or the Infiniti FX, etc.
Tell me though Raven buddy, are you lusting after this one in particular BECAUSE it's north american? Would you buy domestic (in a given vehicle category) just for the sake of buying domestic? |
|
|
| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
What does it do that a German or Japanese equivalent doesn't?
Uhm... nothing? :dunno: I didn't say it did. I'm just saying it's a desirable domestic.
quote:
Tell me though Raven buddy, are you lusting after this one in particular BECAUSE it's north american? Would you buy domestic (in a given vehicle category) just for the sake of buying domestic?
Not at all. I like it because it looks great, has a good powertrain, and is as reliable as you're going to get, right now. The fact that it was a Buick, something I've never lusted for, was what made the unit such a surprise to see hit production.
I wouldn't buy anything, simply because of what badge it wears. You'd never see me in an Aveo, and up until I read some reviews of the new Cobalt SS turbo, I would never have considered that either. I look for and buy cars that suit my purpose. I do, however, refuse to buy anything built by a certain auto manufacturer. I don't care how good (boring, bland, souless.... unless you count the souls of the slaves bought to build it) the car is. |
|
|
| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by oldraven
I do, however, refuse to buy anything built by a certain auto manufacturer. I don't care how good (boring, bland, souless.... unless you count the souls of the slaves bought to build it) the car is.
How can you make a comment like that and yet complain when I present a similar additude towards GM (minus the slave comment)?
BTW, I was going to ask which auto manufacturer you were talking about, but your "(boring, bland, souless.... unless you count the souls of the slaves bought to build it)" was a big clue. You're talking about Toyota, aren't you? |
|
|
| oldraven |
Yes, that would be the other evil auto giant. ;)
I've never blamed you for not wanting to drive a j-body (even if the Cobalt/G5 isn't one). My hatred for Toyota products comes from the way they own the media, and are somehow immune to their own fuck-ups. Hey, if no-one knows you fucked up, what's the harm, right? I won't get back into that here, though. And I haven't said they make bad cars, and when I see a new Toyota I don't assume it's a POS because of the badge. I just know I won't buy it because I'm told to.
I also admit to liking quite a few imports. That would be the difference.
:beer: |
|
|
| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by oldraven
I just know I won't buy it because I'm told to.
Well *I* would tell you NOT to buy a GM. But I know you won't listen to me. :p |
|
|
|
