| Beerking |
Who watched?
All I can say is "Jack Layton, STFU!"
I am sick of his relentless bullshit and pointless comments. The only thing he is good at is trash talking Harper, where he is wrong more than half the time.
And May, LOL:p .... talk about playing with the big boys, she embarrassed herself. I hope they do not let her back in to another Fed debate.
For those who watched, what did you think? |
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| XtraX |
I watched.
Can Gilles Diceppe die already? Kebec ain't the center of the universe.
All and all I don't think the debate helped me solidfy my vote. If anything it's made me question my original intent. |
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| FrozenSRT |
I have a much different opinion then you:)
Harper got tuned beyond belief...
I am sure if the Conservative governd Canada with a majority that we would be like the USA toally in shambles.
I think Dion won, he was one few to talk about his plan. Its obvious that Harper and the Conservatives have no plans other than how to wash and iron a sweater...
Harper can't show his plan because thats what a hidden agenda is for:asshole: Harper |
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| Mustard |
quote:
Originally posted by Beerking
And Hay, LOL:p .... talk about playing with the big boys, she embarrassed herself. I hope they do not let her back in to another Fed debate.
First of all it's May.
Second of all, as brutally ugly as she may be, i was SUPER impressed with her the most. I will admit, i was expecting faaaar less form her... big time.
May talked EVERYONE under the table with regards to Afghanistan, EVERYONE.
She also did well to point out easterners having to watch dad go to work in Fort McMurry, because the only jobs we want to create are those that exist in our continually resource defendant economy.
Other than that, the unfortunate side of a multiple party debate like this is that everyone gangs up on the current leader. It's just plain hard to watch... it becomes a "who can make the leader look the worst" battle.
If anything the debate reminds me how annoying the election system is. My vote will be wasted if i was impressed by May, and vote for her party in my riding. All i can do is vote for some weird, probably high, 17 year/old in my riding who thought he should run cause his friends dared him to do it, and obviously has no chance of winning. |
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| Graphicdude |
I was doing a lot of swearing and yelling at the tv tonight. My wife changed the channel cuz she couldn't stand it anymore. :lol: Everyone one of those jackoffs need to wake the fuck up. We are not the US! We are not in an economic crisis like they are! We are not going to be! So fucking layoff on the fear mongering bullshit and focus on the real issues like our judicial system, education and weaning us off of the oil tit.
I thought Harper handled the stupidity fairly well. I hope that the citizens of this country had their eyes open during this debacle of a debate and see that the Liberals are run by a Retard, Jack Layton still has his rose colored glasses on and thinks we can live in a Utopian world and well the rest..... they don't matter. And really wtf was that Communist Quebec Prick doing there? We can vote for him!
And lastly, LEARN TO SPEAK ENGLISH!!!!!!!! You harp on english speaking MPs not knowing how to speak French, fine, then learnt o speak english!!! |
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| Mustard |
quote:
Originally posted by Graphicdude
And really wtf was that Communist Quebec Prick doing there? We can't vote for him!
fixed
And, you're right, we can't vote for him, or his party.
But a LOT of people can... we are not the center of the universe either.
In fact there are WAY more Quebecois than Albertans. |
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| XtraX |
| At the least I'll admit I'm inspired that someone still gives two shits. I genuinlt think May & Layton believe in what they say, where as the other three are "representitive" of thier parties ideology. If that makes any sense. |
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| Beerking |
Oops I spelled her name wrong, shows how much I care about her.
Sure Harper made some mistakes or was not able to get everything done that he said he would (kind of hard with a minority govt). But what makes you think that May or Dion will keep their promises?
Having a country run by NDP would bring all of us to our knees and we would all be complaining.
Call me old or status quo, but if it ain't broke, why fix it? With the potential of a global economic crisis on the verge, I would much rather be led by a smooth sailing conservative govt then by tilly willies thinking they can make things better and then royaly fuck everyone over. |
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| XtraX |
I guess it depends on your definition of broke.
If your Nissian was smokeing like a bitch and leaking, but still was able to get you to and from your destination everyday, is it broke? |
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| FrozenSRT |
When the Liberals got defeated in the last election they left Canada with a 12 Billion Dollar Surplus, When the Conservatives Left Ontario Politics (same cronies) they did it with a 6 Billion Dollar Deficit.
Bottom line is that a Liberal Government manages money alot better than a Conservatve anyday.
If we had Conservative rule in the last couple elections, we would have went to war on a pack of lies, had major deficits (for George Bush's sakes) and been in alot worse shape, just like the US is now.
Harper is Pro-USA, Pro-Private Health Care, Pro-Privatization. All things that are proven wrong time and time again. |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by FrozenSRT
I have a much different opinion then you:)
Harper got tuned beyond belief...
I am sure if the Conservative governd Canada with a majority that we would be like the USA toally in shambles.
I think Dion won, he was one few to talk about his plan. Its obvious that Harper and the Conservatives have no plans other than how to wash and iron a sweater...
Harper can't show his plan because thats what a hidden agenda is for:asshole: Harper
I agree. Dion did do a lot better than Harper. They were like sharks circling.
Personally, I think May made a lot of good points, and caught Harper up quite a few times. She wasn't afraid to blurt out when he was blatantly lying to the guy, who he couldn't maintain eye contact with.
Duceppe made me laugh. "I'm not going to be Prime Minister, and there are three other people here who won't admit it." Holy fuck. :lol:
I liked Layton's plan to get more doctors working in Canada, but the guy was acting like he was breaking off into a commercial every time he knew the camera was on him. It kept on looking like a really badly written comedy sketch. He also spent some time ensuring the First Nations vote, by being the only one to mention them, and most of the his remaining time agreeing with May and Dion, so he could lead off into some other unrelated thing that no one else was talking about.
May is running in my riding (Central Nova) against Peter MacKay, who's very absent durring this election. I'm still kind of pissed at the shady deal between May and the Liberals to have no Liberal candidate in my riding, and Greens would stay out of a couple of other ones elsewhere, but I think I have an idea who I'm voting for now. The debate was good. It showed two people with a solid plan, two with specialised plans for specific groups, and one that plans to keep on feeding everything into the oil-sands.
And it's easy to say there's no economic crunch when you live in Edmonton. Did you watch the same debate I did, because they addressed pretty well where, exactly, all of the prosperity of this nation is concentrated? The rest of us are watching jobs disappear.
And for the record, Nova Scotians are PISSED about the Atlantic Accord being brushed off! Rodney MacDonald is a douche-bag that thinks the way to solve drunk driving is to make more liquor stores available in rural areas so they don't have to drive as far. He's also a Conservative yes man, and wouldn't dare defy Harper or MacKay. |
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| HiTempguy |
quote:
When the Liberals got defeated in the last election they left Canada with a 12 Billion Dollar Surplus, When the Conservatives Left Ontario Politics (same cronies) they did it with a 6 Billion Dollar Deficit.
Yea, too bad the Liberal government of Ontario did SHIT for infastructure while the roads at the very least were maintained under the conservatives :rolleyes:
There are many ways to create surpluses and deficits. Just cause you can (IMO) doesn't mean you should. The point of the conservatives is to have a smaller surplus, because that means there are less of our taxes in the governments hands.
Btw, I was finding it interesting about the "tax rebates" idea that Duceppe kept bringing up... wouldn't it be cheaper just to keep the money in our pockets to begin with (ala conservative strategy with less taxes)? As soon as the government touches our money some of it is lost due to inefficiency.
For anybody that believes Canada is in the same position as the USA, wakeup. The whole WORLD is going to be having a bit of a slowdown. A government (IMO) cannot fix an economy. They can help it, but if a global recession (or at least reduction) in the economy is coming, there is NOTHING any government can do.
Finally, as you can tell I like the Conservatives. But I do not agree with all of their policies. It is crap that the Canadian government is not buying Canadian made materials (when the issue about the coastgaurd and ships was brought up). I unfortunatley only got to watch the first 30 minutes :( And it was terrible to see Harper getting bashed by everyone (but understandable). |
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| Invalid Zero |
quote:
Originally posted by FrozenSRT
Bottom line is that a Liberal Government manages money alot better than a Conservatve anyday.
Are you fucked in the head? |
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| shorti |
quote:
Originally posted by Invalid Zero
Are you fucked in the head?
Ya no shit. Does sponsorship scandal ring a bell?
I still don't understand how the Bloc are allowed to be in a Federal debate. No one outside of Quebec can vote for them, therefore they aren't a national party.
I'm hoping the Conservatives get a majority so we can get closer to having an elected senate, just to piss the easterners off a bit more. |
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| FrozenSRT |
lol.
Lets see roads and infastructure?
Yeah complete expensive projects at the expense of the taxpayer, then sell them to your friends for a quarter of what they are worth with secret 99 year deals. Your "corporate" buddies then make it the most expensive toll road on the planet and there is nothing we can do about it, yeah Conservative rule at its best...like fuck
and lets see Sponsorship happened 2 Governments ago. investigation was brought out by the Liberal Government and the sponsorship program was stopped by the Liberal Government.
Did the RCMP not raid the Conservatives "War Room"? hummm they must be on the up and up...:rolleyes:
Conservative MP's are NOT allowed to speak with members of the mediam they have to ask their DICKtatorship idoit of a leader first.
and speaking of DICKtatorship Harper, he controls the media and what questions they are allowed to ask, what a maroon.
Not to mention a speech that was copyied, loose lips MP's that look like total tools when they do speak, no plan and a tasteless sweather that is full of moths
Conservatives = :asshole: s |
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| crzyone |
Do you even remember the last time a Liberal kept an election promise?
Harper did lower the GST, and even quicker than he promised.
I'll trust an economist from Alberta long before I trust a rich lawyer from Quebec (which most of our past PM's seem to be...) |
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| oldraven |
Nothing pisses off Easterners (Ontario and Quebec are considered Central) more than letting their industry either be bought by foreign investors or disappear completely and forcing them to move to the dirty west to work, leaving their families at home. Yes, I work in Nova Scotia, but I'm lucky enough to have a job that can be done by distance. Most of the projects I do are for Calgary and New England. Where was Peter MacKay when Stora Enso was sold off to New Page? A few jobs stayed here (where else are they going to go when the trees are on our soil) but every dollar of profit from our forests are now going to Ohio. Oh yeah, he was over dealing with the gaping wound in our economy that is the Afghanistan operation. Forget our economy when there's a US war to fight.
This is not a good system. |
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| Inzane |
FrozenSRT must be smoking some good shit on page 1. :rofl: Holding out for that legalization of marijuana? Pissed off because the Conservatives aren't likely to give it to you? Try to make sure you're not completely baked when you vote. :p
quote:
Originally posted by crzyone
I'll trust an economist from Alberta long before I trust a rich lawyer from Quebec (which most of our past PM's seem to be...)
x2. :thumbup:
quote:
forcing them to move to the dirty west to work,
Forcing, eh? Newfies have been migrating to Fort McMurray since the mid-70s to work at the Oil Sands and reap the Alberta advantage. Every one of them buys the house, the full size trucks and the matching ski-doos, sea-doos and quads to go with them. |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
FrozenSRT must be smoking some good shit on page 1. :rofl: Holding out for that legalization of marijuana? Pissed off because the Conservatives aren't likely to give it to you? Try to make sure you're not completely baked when you vote. :p
x2. :thumbup:
Forcing, eh? Newfies have been migrating to Fort McMurray since the mid-70s to work at the Oil Sands and reap the Alberta advantage. Every one of them buys the house, the full size trucks and the matching ski-doos, sea-doos and quads to go with them.
When it's a choice of move to Alberta or let your family starve, because that's the ONLY real economic development in the entire Country, yeah, I'd call it being forced. Given no other choice may be a better way to put it. And I know that living in Alberta allows you to live in complete excess. That's kind of what I'm getting at. The complete lack of balance in our economy on a Federal level.
Why is it that most of the profit made on our oil is not kept in Canada? We get the taxes, the rest goes to the foreign companies buying the equipment. But Canadians design and build the equipment, run the equipment, refine the product, then let someone else sell it.... to us. What the hell is wrong with this picture? We have so many people who can only work in one place, and in a resource based business, when half of them could be manufacturing a product to sell to other nations and ourselves. Oil is losing favour fast, so where are we going to be when real multiple alternatives force the price of oil down to the point where the Oil sands are running in the red? That's around $80 a barrel at our current efficiency rate, and can only lean out to around $65 a barrel. Before the war it was worth $23 a barrel. Now where is Canada's economy? Relying completely on a deficit running business model that doesn't have disastrous oil prices to keep the maths working. Funny how Oil went from $23 to $148 because of the actions of a Government run by a Conservative (Republican) Oil Tycoon. |
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| beeb |
quote:
Originally posted by FrozenSRT
When the Liberals got defeated in the last election they left Canada with a 12 Billion Dollar Surplus, When the Conservatives Left Ontario Politics (same cronies) they did it with a 6 Billion Dollar Deficit.
Bottom line is that a Liberal Government manages money alot better than a Conservatve anyday.
If we had Conservative rule in the last couple elections, we would have went to war on a pack of lies, had major deficits (for George Bush's sakes) and been in alot worse shape, just like the US is now.
Harper is Pro-USA, Pro-Private Health Care, Pro-Privatization. All things that are proven wrong time and time again.
uhh you also have to look at the UNBELIEVEABLE DEBT THE LIBERALS PUT US IN.
dumbass |
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| SilverE90 |
| So funny because some of the worst redneck trucks I have noticed recently with tons of money dumped into them seem to have either a 'newfie' or 'caper' decal on the rear window or a NS flag or the little provincial outline or something to identify them as from down east. If they left their family behind to earn money for food and are wasting it all on trucks and driving like idiots their wives won't be too impressed. lol |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by SilverE90
So funny because some of the worst redneck trucks I have noticed recently with tons of money dumped into them seem to have either a 'newfie' or 'caper' decal on the rear window or a NS flag or the little provincial outline or something to identify them as from down east. If they left their family behind to earn money for food and are wasting it all on trucks and driving like idiots their wives won't be too impressed. lol
There are a lot of young people heading out there too. I was one of them. Why sit home waiting for a job that may never come or for your father to retire so you can take his job over, when you could so easily just hop in a car and go west, like everybody else. No one is immune to the pull of big money.
But the question is where does this leave the rest of Canada? Any easterner with a family left behind saves his money to buy plane tickets or ship them out to Alberta. Once you're more than financially stable, and remember living paycheque to paycheque, or on dole alone, do you think you'd make the decision to move your family back some day? No, you'd take the safe bet and become a resident. Believe me, it wasn't an easy choice moving East, but it's one I felt I had to do. Again, where does that leave Canada outside Alberta and Saskatchewan? It's sad, considering just how much Eastern sweat makes the Oil Sands keep on running.
I have nothing against Alberta being a success. They spent a good long time with nothing to look forward to and a decreasing population two decades ago. But at the expense of all other regions of Canada, yeah, I have a problem with that. We need balance, and there's no reason you can't have a strong Alberta with a strong Canada.
The economy looks great to you guys, because you're sitting in the sweet spot. |
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| Invalid Zero |
| Fuck Canada. |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by Invalid Zero
Fuck Canada.
Exactly. I'm glad you have a firm grasp on the situation. |
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| Invalid Zero |
| Well I figure it was better than tearing into you and frozenguy. :dunno: |
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| SilverE90 |
quote:
Originally posted by oldraven
It's sad, considering just how much Eastern sweat makes the Oil Sands keep on running.
Oh come on, they don't work that hard! :p
Aren't they just puting in the hours so they can ask to be laid off and collect EI back home again? :D
I am totally just having fun though (even though there are too many like that). Obviously things aren't perfect anywhere in Canada, even here were it may seem to be to most people most of the time. Unfortunately there will probably never be a time where every section of Canada will enjoy the same kind of prosperity at the same time.
You are obviously happy with your decision to leave when you did and thankfully you have a good job in NS and are enjoying above average equity in your home there because of what you made here. Great!
I am personally happy (for the most part) with life here for many of the same reasons you like being back east (family) and I am looking forward to things calming down some more yet so hopefully some of the crap that came to this province just looking for money will go back to where ever the hell they are from. :beer: |
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| ehos |
I'll be voting NDP for the first time in my life.
Liberals are thieves, they did have a surplus, but we were in boom times, no brainer. But they stole and that is unforgivable. And too many no - confidence vote abstentions. Grow a pair buddy.
PC = no more. They are the Conservative Reform Alliance Party (CRAP). Harper is supposed to be an economics guru but he's spent the deficit on junk. Reducing the GST was a good popular move, but he didn't replace the lost 12 Billion in revenue. He understands economics as much as May. NO economic platform! NONE. Not good for a country facing recession.
NDP - I'm not for the environment, but Layton and party have been true to their focus forever. What he says he is true to. His economic plan is to help the people. What good is money if not to help the citizens? WE pay the tax, we should reap it's benefits. It's alot better than having it stolen from us (Liberals) or squandered on voter promises (CRAP).
The NDP in Sask. have managed their resources, they didn't sell out to the Americans like Alberta did (Texas/US owns us), and their 'boom' is slow and steady and will last decades. |
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| ~sanj~ |
i should really start paying attention to this stuff.
keep voicing your opinions people, everyone is bringing up valid points, im learning :thumbup: |
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| SilverE90 |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
WE pay the tax, we should reap it's benefits.
Only if the NDP were elected most of us wouldn't be paying taxes (unemployed) and those that were still working would be getting ass raped. :D
And I wouldn't compare the provincial ndp of sask to the federal one. |
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| ehos |
quote:
Originally posted by SilverE90
And I wouldn't compare the provincial ndp of sask to the federal one.
Why not? |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by SilverE90
if the NDP were elected most of us wouldn't be paying taxes (unemployed) and those that were still working would be getting ass raped.
Yep. :geezuz: |
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| ehos |
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
Yep. :geezuz:
Those guys in Sask. are sure facing tough times of unemployment. :rolleyes: What is the PC platform to increase employment? Or Liberals for that matter?
CRAP: No broken promises? What about 'we won't mess with income trusts'?
Liberals on the same issue: They tipped off their buddies, (RCMP/securities) investigated buying before their announcement of 'no change'.
Either way they lied and stole on the same issue.
Iraq:
Harper: 'I don't know what Bush is for, but I'm for it' Uh ok. If Harper was in power WE would be in Iraq right now.
Liberals: At least Chritien (sp) had the balls to say no to the US.
Afghanistan:
PC/Liberal; Stay the course, spend billions, hope for the best. Hope and pray Bushism works out.
NDP: Withdraw from Afghanistan, save billions, spend it on Canadians. That's great that people want to help the middle east, but you know what, I don't care. I would rather help Canadians. |
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| THUD |
For some reason I wanted to punch my tv alot, I don't mind harper at all and I understand why he called the Parliament dysfunctional, I wanted to see Dino's face get smashed into the table and jack there is still an armature and I was expecting more clarity from him but he still rants to much.
I have to say Harper was the only one that stuck to the questions that were being asked without going on a rant and the others could only gang up on him with no real meat, like over enthusiastic protesting environmentalist's trying to one up each other.
I think that chick did a better job than jack and shes newer to this than he is but still a nooby, Quebec's lil freak needs to play the disappearing pencil game with the joker.
I just hope theres no minority government this time cause there was way to much bullshit with them constantly trying to stop or change things to get there way.
fucking politics fucking SMASH
I don't see why people say Harper or who ever could send troops to Iraq, the war there is not sanctioned by the UN and they told Canada no just afghanistan for us cause it's a peace keeping and making job with strong humanitarian reasons rather than the conquests mission the USA is on.
Now after the USA pulls out of Iraq and theres complte bullshit then ya the UN could ask us to go there but not now. |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by SilverE90
Only if the NDP were elected most of us wouldn't be paying taxes (unemployed) and those that were still working would be getting ass raped. :D
And I wouldn't compare the provincial ndp of sask to the federal one.
I hear a lot of people say that the NDP and Greens would put us into economic turmoil (as if we aren't already), but none ever have anything to say that supports that theory. So how? What part of either platform would send us into economic winter? Is it something you just assume, or did you look at their policy and then make an assessment? If enough people say it it's true?
I don't know much about the NDP, myself, and I really don't think that many people who sit in the Conservative or Liberal camps do either. For the first time I've got Jack Layton's plans to keep doctors in Canada ringing in my head. I'm not going to vote for him, but he's got me listening to the orange for once.
Since I've mentioned it twice I may as well point it out. Layton wants to offer new doctors who school in Canada their student loans paid in full if they commit to 10 years of practice within Canada. It may seem like it will cost us a lot of money to pay these tuitions, but consider the drain it will take off of the Health Care system. Not only will this bring more Canadians to University to study in the medical profession, but it will create and keep doctors in our communities. Medicare has a better chance for success if every Canadian has a family doctor that actually has time to see them, as the system is intended.
Who laughed at Harper's desperate attempt to sling mud at the other candidates for using Private Health Care, Harper's baby, and they all called him on it. "I always use my health card." Every one used clinics covered by Medicare. All he could say to that was a frenzied repeat of the words "I've never used them. I've never used them. I've never used them." Not that you're not trying to make it possible, buddy, and neither had anyone else at that table. |
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| ehos |
Don't confuse the issue with facts. People vote on emotion, hearsay and innuendo.
The PC's are running the same attack style campaign that gets conservatives elected in the US. Don't worry about the issues, just make sure you make up stupid ads showing the other leader in a bad pose. Or make some ad homenium attacks that have no relevance.
http://www.conservative.ca/EN/2444/
A little insecure are we?
I'm sick of our mini-Bush. |
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| Therin |
I voted PC last time because i felt harper would be the guy to keep the ball rollin in canada's direction. Some would say he did. "Oh look, GST is 5%, harper rules!!" Ummmm 5% gst has a minimal effect on your personal pocket book, but look at what it has done to canada. Billions of dollars in tax revenue are gone, and we got all these new "Tax plans".
Carbon tax and other new and probable "neutral" taxes are all bullshit, brought in by the conservatives. Been in BC lately? Gas is over 130, still close to 150 in certain spots. I was in Calgary last week and i paid 116.4/litre. I get back to bc and im pay 129.9. I would rather see my extra 2% gst that no longer exists put into some program which enables Canadians as a whole to have lower gas prices.
Canada is in no economic turmoil, yet. But with the skyrocketing inflation due to, but all blame put to, the rising gas costs (they will only go up untill were off dino fuels). Rising food costs, rent,housing prices, etc. We will soon be facing the same problem the USA is having just not in the same magnitude or rasoning. But do you really want to be paying out the ass just to "get by"? I dont want, and i dont right now because i work and live in the patch. But thats me and some of us on here. What about the rest of Canada?
The city of Toronto itself went bankrupt. The maritimes have nothing to offer its citizens except fishing, mining, a little forestry and a little oil and gas. They keep running to alberta. ITs gotta stop. Sask is starting to really pick up due to oil demand and pricing.
So am i supposed to vote for PC and the Liberals who dont give two shits about canada's dying economy? Focus on the oil? what about my kids? The oil isnt gonna be there forever.
I made that mistake last election.
Layton is kind of a moron, but he does make a lot of sense and has a lot good points on key issues (i dont agree with his green plan) So NDP is getting my vote while everyone will still vote PC because "oh look our dollar beat the americans once this year" yeah cuz thats awesome...
VOTE NDP |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
Liberals: At least Chritien (sp) had the balls to say no to the US.
And the idiocy to sign Kyoto.
And NDP = socialism, as far as I'm concerned. No thanks. |
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| Beerking |
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
And the idiocy to sign Kyoto.
And NDP = socialism, as far as I'm concerned. No thanks.
Who knows, the way the economy is going, socialism may be the way to go.....lol:p :p :p
:blink: |
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| ehos |
Socialism? Lol. Get with the times dude, even the Americans are socialists. (To the tune of 700 Billion of porky pork).
Capitalism on the way up, and Socialism on the way down. We're on the way down (obviously).
If Socialism means 'for the people', great, I'm all for the people. |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by Beerking
Who knows, the way the economy is going, socialism may be the way to go.....lol:p :p :p
:blink:
Actually, since the polls show Harper's going to win anyway, and the US has just made the switch to Socialism, I'm sure we're right behind. Copycats that we are.
To be honest, Canada has been very socialist for a fairly long time now. |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
Socialism? Lol. Get with the times dude, even the Americans are socialists. (To the tune of 700 Billion of porky pork).
Capitalism on the way up, and Socialism on the way down. We're on the way down (obviously).
If Socialism means 'for the people', great, I'm all for the people.
This was you right?
http://forums.780tuners.com/showthr...rind#post733231
Just checking.
Let's see: Don't work, mooche off your parents, etc.
Yeah I can see why you'd be voting NDP. |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by oldraven
To be honest, Canada has been very socialist for a fairly long time now.
There's some truth to that sure, but that doesn't mean putting the most socialist-leaning party in power is neccesarily the right thing to do. (Neither would putting in a purely-capitalist party, which neither the Conservatives or Liberals are). |
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| ehos |
Pretty typical strategy of conservatives, attack and FUD. Let's not look at the facts, lets play on peoples fears and emotions.
It's true, I guess I am socialist in my thinking. I think that people shouldn't be slaves to working their entire lives.
That people should leave something for their children.
That people should care for their kids, have good health (I'm for prevention).
I am a capitalist because I run my own company and I don't grind out 8 hours a day, every single day. We've lived in boom time for 6-7 years and what did we get? Rich corporations and run away inflation. |
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| ehos |
17 balanced budgets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ny8Z5DC4UIY
How many have CRAP had? And I'll let you count the party that went down to TWO seats and had to merge with a radical western only party to save 'face'. |
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| skeeontwintips |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
17 balanced budgets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ny8Z5DC4UIY
How many have CRAP had? And I'll let you count the party that went down to TWO seats and had to merge with a radical western only party to save 'face'.
"Where is your platform? Where is it? Under that sweater?"
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| TrevorK |
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Originally posted by oldraven
I hear a lot of people say that the NDP and Greens would put us into economic turmoil (as if we aren't already), but none ever have anything to say that supports that theory. So how? What part of either platform would send us into economic winter? Is it something you just assume, or did you look at their policy and then make an assessment? If enough people say it it's true?
One reason many people are against the NDP platform is that their policies circulate around taxing corporations more and providing the tax relief to the citizens.
What happens when the profits of a large corporation go down?
- Shares go down
- Bottom level employee wages are trimmed
- Positions are trimmed, usually starting at the bottom level
- They pay less tax
This is a big issue. Many parties are talking about taxing corporation more (income tax, green tax, etc...) but in the short term it is only going to cause growth problems for the companies. Duceppe ranted about companies not making a profit now to use the tax cuts, imagine if we start to tax them more?
Every party is promoting more spending. However, I think the big fear in the media is that the NDP plans are so large (nationwide drug coverage, etc...) that the money has to come from somewhere. And either way, it will all trickle down to the tax payer (As increasing taxes on a company decreases their ability to invest in our economy and lowers share prices, which average people own).
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Since I've mentioned it twice I may as well point it out. Layton wants to offer new doctors who school in Canada their student loans paid in full if they commit to 10 years of practice within Canada. It may seem like it will cost us a lot of money to pay these tuitions, but consider the drain it will take off of the Health Care system. Not only will this bring more Canadians to University to study in the medical profession, but it will create and keep doctors in our communities. Medicare has a better chance for success if every Canadian has a family doctor that actually has time to see them, as the system is intended.
I think this seems like a Steady Eddy move, employed by many politicians. He promised more money to hire police officers, the problem is that it isn't money stopping police from being hired it's that there aren't enough through the recruitment process.
It sounds great on paper, that every grad will most likely stay for 10 years.
However, is the problem that our doctors are being trained and immediately leaving? Or is the problem that we aren't training enough doctors? Or we don't have enough university space/professors/etc... to teach more doctors? Or that we don't have funding to support more doctors (More beds, nurses, nurses assistants, support staff, etc...)?
Until you can analyze what the real problem is they are just throwing money at it to sound good. It does no good to forgive student loans if it turns out the real issue is we aren't training enough. Maybe if we trained more doctors we would have enough stay in Canada? Maybe if we increased salaries we could attract doctors to come here.
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Who laughed at Harper's desperate attempt to sling mud at the other candidates for using Private Health Care, Harper's baby, and they all called him on it. "I always use my health card." Every one used clinics covered by Medicare. All he could say to that was a frenzied repeat of the words "I've never used them. I've never used them. I've never used them." Not that you're not trying to make it possible, buddy, and neither had anyone else at that table.
My understanding is that the other leaders used a clinic that uses your health care card, but charges an additional fee for the service. The same way you can get a MRI done the next day if you pay $500.
Alberta Health Care pays out their portion still, you just pay extra to have it done right away.
I think this is what he was getting at. The leaders were hounding him about health care needing to be universal, yet they flexed their financial muscle to pull to the front of the line, past all the common people, and got their services done first. |
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| TrevorK |
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Originally posted by Therin
Canada is in no economic turmoil, yet.
I'm not liberal/socialist, however I do have to dispute this. There are many regions within Canada that are experiencing economic difficulty right now. Our high dollar and the poor economy in the US has greatly affected Central/Eastern Canada.
Now, each person can define turmoil how they want, however I think it's safe to say that not all areas of Canada are experiencing economic growth, and a lot of the overall growth can be clouded because of the rapid development in the natural resources sectors.
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We will soon be facing the same problem the USA is having just not in the same magnitude or rasoning.
This is a big problem I had with the debate last night. The problems that currently exist in the US (expensive war in Iraq, crumbling housing market due to sub-prime) do not exist here, and will not exist here.
I kept listening to Layton blab about "securing savings accounts" and "securing mortgages". Our banking system is completely different than the Amercians. CDIC secures our deposits up to 100K, CMHC/Genworth/etc... secure our mortgages. What exactly is Layton referring to? Does he somehow magically expect the markets to be controlled by the government (as he did reference pensions, and with CPP being fully funded for decades to come he couldn't possibly be referring to that)?
Layton's plans are vague, and he seems to just attack the current methods and propose an idea that is so vague in nature that no one can derive his plan from it.
In all honesty, it seemed like the Liberals and Bloc had the most ideas of all the groups in the debate. I didn't agree with every one, however they demonstrated that they both came prepared to the table and brought actual thoughts/theories with them, and not just one liners to attack the current method of government. |
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| ehos |
Two fallacies:
1) Cutting corporate tax does not create jobs.
2) Increasing corporate tax does not take away jobs.
There is no proof of either fact.
Linking a party to those statements doesn't mean anything if the premise isn't true.
The facts remain, PC's cut the GST. The budget is short 12 Billion dollars. They plan to cut Corporate Tax. Another 50 Billion.
Where will this money come from?
The Liberals had huge surpluses because of a booming economy. It happened worldwide. That economy is cooling down. It's pointless to cut the GST. It's pointless to cut corporate tax. The economy will still cool. Canada will generate less tax. On top of the less tax, there will be less benefits to Canadians.
PC's want to stay in Afghanistan, that will cost money.
The PC 'economic' plan or platform doesn't exist. The NDP platform is clearly marked out, projections, actual numbers on their website. Where is a similar plan by the PC Party? |
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| Arikara1985 |
| Does Edmonton have a Communist party? If so, that's who I'm voting for. Either way, my vote is going to be wasted because every single one of our major parties are garbage. |
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| HiTempguy |
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PC's want to stay in Afghanistan, that will cost money.
Er, actually didn't Harper say out by 2011? May not be telling the truth, but that is what came out of his mouth.
I like it of how you harp on their budget though (as does everyone else against them). It HASN'T CHANGED. Why release something that they already did when they became a minority? You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out what the conservatives are going to do, that is simply a nit-pick. And the fact is that the Liberals will end up charging more taxes. The NDP, I don't know... but that doesn't make up for what they would do (social welfare blackholes, etc).
You know, I wouldn't mind seeing the NDP in a minority government just to see what they could do. If what they wanted to do actually worked (which I have my doubts) I'd go along with it. However, the NDP party that ran Ontario was a DISASTER, so I can only imagine what would happen nationally. |
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| ehos |
Day 24 of the Federal Election and NO PC Party Platform.
It will be available 'possibly Tuesday'. The PC's are telling Canadians they don't have to release a Party Platform because the average voter is too ignorant to care or NOTICE.
That seems to be obviously true here.
Getting out of Afghanistan in 2011 is another 'keep the status quo, don't make a decision' by the PC/Liberals (43 times they had a chance to vote in Non-Confidence issues, but they basically abstained). Meanwhile how many more billions are wasted on a lost cause?
Liberals/PC are late on the environment/social reform bandwagon. |
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| FrozenSRT |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
Day 24 of the Federal Election and NO PC Party Platform.
It will be available 'possibly Tuesday'. The PC's are telling Canadians they don't have to release a Party Platform because the average voter is too ignorant to care or NOTICE.
I totally understand the trouble they are having coming up with something that Canadians will buy from them now.....
All thier "HOT" copies from the US will be a disaster. so that is a no go.
Looks like they are having a hard time "borrowing" other platforms and speeches...
And you wonder why you can't get a shredder from the local stores in the same town as the Conservative War Room? ahaha |
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| unlimited |
I agree with Ehos and TrevorK.
People have to think a bit outside the box. I remember last year in the Albertan elections, the newscaster on CBC asked some dude on why he was voting Conservative? The dude replied that if he didn't vote the Conservatives in power, the oil would stop flowing...
That's pathetic. Like really come on man. We have brains use it.
NDP so far from what I've read, has the best platform. Sure all plans look good on paper but you've got to pick something.
I agree with the other member on here that said about the French harping on other MPs to learn French, why the fuck can't you learn proper English too?! Ridiculous.
Conservative - Still no platform. Regardless if it's the same as last years. You still need to put out a platform, the situation has changed since last year, something has to be done, make a plan. It's just plain idiocy not to.
Liberals - Please learn proper English. Liberals are almost as useless as the Conservatives these days.
NDP - Is getting my vote this election. They've got the best plan in my opinion so far. And those who equate socialism to failure and doom. Hello? Where have you been? Read up on what socialism exactly is!
Green Party - May made a good first impression on me, but she's not going anywhere in this election. She sounds like she knows what she's talking about.
Block - As mentioned before, what the hell are they even doing in the Federal debate?!?! Go back to Quebec ya bastards.
But the debate was gongshow. Everyone just attacked each other and Harper. Please talk to the voters who want to hear you! |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
Liberals/PC are late on the environment/social reform bandwagon.
Well, at least you got the "bandwagon" part right. |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by HiTempguy
Er, actually didn't Harper say out by 2011? May not be telling the truth, but that is what came out of his mouth.
He also set a fixed date for an election, but here we are preparing to vote in October.
Arikara1985, vote for whoever you want, but make sure you're not just assuming that all parties and their plans are garbage without checking them out first. Also, it helps to visit their websites and read their platforms, rather than take the opinion of a pundit. Every one of those guys has an agenda. That you can believe. |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by unlimited
Block - As mentioned before, what the hell are they even doing in the Federal debate?!?! Go back to Quebec ya bastards.
But the debate was gongshow. Everyone just attacked each other and Harper. Please talk to the voters who want to hear you!
I agree with pretty much everything you said, but these two caught me. Duceppe didn't WANT to be there. What interest does he have in Canadian politics? The "I'm not going to be Prime Minister.." comment showed that he knew he didn't belong there, and would rather be talking to Quebecers.
And it's a debate. That's how debate's go. Talking to Canadians is what an election tour is for. A debate is for debating with other leaders on National issues. |
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| ehos |
quote:
Originally posted by oldraven
He also set a fixed date for an election, but here we are preparing to vote in October.
Arikara1985, vote for whoever you want, but make sure you're not just assuming that all parties and their plans are garbage without checking them out first. Also, it helps to visit their websites and read their platforms, rather than take the opinion of a pundit. Every one of those guys has an agenda. That you can believe.
1) The PC's broke the law when Harper called the election. A law that he put into place himself. So much for 'promises'.
2) The PC's have no platform. |
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| unlimited |
quote:
Originally posted by oldraven
And it's a debate. That's how debate's go. Talking to Canadians is what an election tour is for. A debate is for debating with other leaders on National issues.
Haha, yeah I know. |
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| TrevorK |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
The PC 'economic' plan or platform doesn't exist. The NDP platform is clearly marked out, projections, actual numbers on their website. Where is a similar plan by the PC Party?
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see any information on the NDP site that demonstrates a concrete plan. All I see are statements with no evidence to back it up, such as:
http://www.ndp.ca/platform/healthca...octorsandnurses
The statements that he makes, such as increasing doctors/nurses by 50% are absurd unless he can provide some sort of basis for these numbers.
It's easy to sit in the position the NDP are in, they know they aren't going to win so they can easily promise the world to people knowing full well that they will never have to deliver on their promise. Just thinking of the logistics behind implementing all their policies is mind-boggling.
I'm all for someone with a plan, but my perception of the NDP is that their plan is a complete shift from what we currently have, and completely unattainable. |
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| ehos |
You did miss it. It's pretty obvious where his platform is. He also has a cost break down of where the money will come from, how they plan to spend it and what new/old programs they will fund.
Pretty concrete to me. Let's see the PC platform cost break down?
I know how much the NDP plan to spend on almost any issue, can you say the same for PC? or Liberals?
Sorry, but the NDP have the best economic plan this election. People chose to stick to their old beliefs and not change (oops, isn't that what a conservative is?) |
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| XtraX |
| I just watched Zeitgeist Addendum. I'm having a hard time voting now. |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
You did miss it. It's pretty obvious where his platform is. He also has a cost break down of where the money will come from, how they plan to spend it and what new/old programs they will fund.
I guess I missed it too. I don't see any figures at all under their platform and plan sections of their website. So where is this cost break down? |
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| ehos |
"Tomorrow, the Parliamentary Budget Office will release their report on the real cost of the mission in Afghanistan, a mission Stephen Harper - and Stephane Dion - plan to pursue until 2011.
The initial budget for the 6-year mission was less than $8 billion (Canadian Press, September 16, 2008), but independent assessments indicate the real costs could be nearly three times that high - $22 billion (CanWest News, September 18, 2008).
Stephen Harper wants to pursue this conflict for three more years - which raises several questions:
* Did Harper budget for the true cost of the mission when he developed his election platform?
* If so, how much did he budget?
* If not, is he prepared to change his position on the mission? Or does he plan to find the money elsewhere?
* The costs of the Afghan war have been a cause of public debate in both the UK and the US (Times of London, February 23, 2008). Did Stephen Harper consider this when he supported the 2011 extension?
" |
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| ehos |
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
I guess I missed it too. I don't see any figures at all under their platform and plan sections of their website. So where is this cost break down?
We choose not to see what we don't want to believe.
Hint: It's at the top of the page under 'PLAN'. :lol: Then read, and you shall be enlightened! :blink:
PS Don't blink. |
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