| ehos |
Give me a hit of what you're having son, because it looks like Harper stole another line from McCain/Bush. The economy is headed for 'worse than recession' (say Canadian big banks). No growth. Credit is drying up for small/medium business (you know, the guys that employ YOU).
And he says the economy is fine? Have you seen the market? Does it look fine? Even Albertans are starting to panic, 140 to 90 dollar oil. And everything is FINE?
You want to stay the course, spend more money when there is none to be had?
I thought the stock market was a 'greater fool' game, but politics trumps that. There must be alot of fools getting ready to vote themselves into recession.
And during this upcoming down turn, he makes a political jab against an industry that pumps in 7% to the GDP and indirectly 3-5% more for NO reason whatsoever. Is he crazy? Harper doesn't have a hidden agenda, he has NO agenda. |
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| Graphicdude |
I don't think he is planning on spending any money right now. The last time I checked, the liberals were going to spend money to figure out how to save money. The whole "Economy Summit" BS. How does that make sense?
And do you think that the NDPs will NOT spend any money if they were in power? Christ it would be a free for all.
Harper wants to keep our surplus. I don't think he will be spending any money. and frankly, this little "crisis" will balance out soon enough. There is no need to panic. That is what the media wants you to do.
Shit happens, just take it like a champ and be patient. It will turn around soon enough. You watch, once the US election is done, it will turn around. |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by Graphicdude
I don't think he is planning on spending any money right now. The last time I checked, the liberals were going to spend money to figure out how to save money. The whole "Economy Summit" BS. How does that make sense?
And do you think that the NDPs will NOT spend any money if they were in power? Christ it would be a free for all.
Harper wants to keep our surplus. I don't think he will be spending any money. and frankly, this little "crisis" will balance out soon enough. There is no need to panic. That is what the media wants you to do.
Shit happens, just take it like a champ and be patient. It will turn around soon enough. You watch, once the US election is done, it will turn around.
That was a whole lot of denial, there. If you think it's only the US experiencing financial doom, you're just not watching. Where do you think most of Canada's exports go? Oil in particular. All of those people in southern California thought they were ok too. |
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| Beerking |
OP. please do not be incompetent. No matter what, I do not care who we have as our leader, if there is going to be a recession (or depression...god forbid) then you cannot just flick you finger and divert the crisis.
The economy will be hurt not b/c of who we have as our leader, but b/c of the world economics...read into it, countries affect other countries.
It is people like you that get freaked out adn cause mass exodus from the market and fuck us all over.
CHILL OUT, put money under your mattress and do not go and buy that $80,000 BMW just yet.
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
Even Albertans are starting to panic, 140 to 90 dollar oil.
Well you sure are. |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by Beerking
if there is going to be a recession (or depression...god forbid) then you cannot just flick you finger and divert the crisis.
The economy will be hurt not b/c of who we have as our leader, but b/c of the world economics
Bingo! :thumbup: |
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| Graphicdude |
quote:
Originally posted by oldraven
That was a whole lot of denial, there. If you think it's only the US experiencing financial doom, you're just not watching. Where do you think most of Canada's exports go? Oil in particular. All of those people in southern California thought they were ok too.
Sorry but I'm not buying into this BS until I see massive amounts of people being laid off, companies shutting their doors and the stock market heading towards zero. This is merely a blip.
I will be on a recliner with a case of beer watching the show finish. |
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| Fish_e_o |
quote:
Originally posted by Graphicdude
I don't think he is planning on spending any money right now. The last time I checked, the liberals were going to spend money to figure out how to save money. The whole "Economy Summit" BS. How does that make sense?
And do you think that the NDPs will NOT spend any money if they were in power? Christ it would be a free for all.
Harper wants to keep our surplus. I don't think he will be spending any money. and frankly, this little "crisis" will balance out soon enough. There is no need to panic. That is what the media wants you to do.
Shit happens, just take it like a champ and be patient. It will turn around soon enough. You watch, once the US election is done, it will turn around.
although not conveyed perfectly i tend to agree.
look what happened when bush tried to settle the economy in the states after 911. i would be more inclined to let the economy settle it'self and have a better foundation because of it than to pour money in and just have problems down the road
can't we learn from others mistakes? or do we have to repeat everything here too? |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by Graphicdude
Sorry but I'm not buying into this BS until I see massive amounts of people being laid off, companies shutting their doors and the stock market heading towards zero. This is merely a blip.
I will be on a recliner with a case of beer watching the show finish.
Try reading news that covers areas outside of Alberta if you want to see massive lay-offs and plant closures. They're happening, just not in oil rich Alberta.
Oil hit $88 a barrel this week. That's a whole $8 over the cost to produce oil from the oil sands (at current efficiency rates). How long do you think it will take to start turning the patch into a money pit?
http://finance.google.ca/finance?client=ob&q=TSE:X
Go there to see how the TSX has been fairing over the last six months.
Yes, things were a lot lesser prior to 2005, but the population in Canada has grown a lot (you'd know this first hand) since then.
Major Layoffs and plant closures in Central Canada (where most of our tax paying citizens live).
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&a...earch&meta=
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&a...earch&meta= |
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| ehos |
Coming from someone with such a weak grasp of how the market/economy works, I think your post is pretty much worthless when it comes to money.
quote:
Originally posted by Beerking
I wasn't aware the ban was lifted.
quote:
Originally posted by Beerking
If I had money I would be buying in on this garage sale and go on several long vacations.:p
quote:
Originally posted by Beerking
Sure it may ahve gone down in the short term, but if things go south (and they very may well) the GOLD is going to be a good investment when the $ is worth nothing more than a burning bag of poop.:blink:
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| ehos |
His platform is out, and he plans to cut taxes to seniors by 1.1 Billion. Vote buying much? How exactly does this help the economy??
Good thing he's giving everyone a good opportunity to look at his platform with a week left to go. :rolleyes:
And he's back to his plagiarizing Bush/McCain again. WE WILL NOT BLINK!
:lol: |
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| Graphicdude |
quote:
Originally posted by oldraven
Try reading news that covers areas outside of Alberta if you want to see massive lay-offs and plant closures. They're happening, just not in oil rich Alberta.
Oil hit $88 a barrel this week. That's a whole $8 over the cost to produce oil from the oil sands (at current efficiency rates). How long do you think it will take to start turning the patch into a money pit?
http://finance.google.ca/finance?client=ob&q=TSE:X
Go there to see how the TSX has been fairing over the last six months.
Yes, things were a lot lesser prior to 2005, but the population in Canada has grown a lot (you'd know this first hand) since then.
Major Layoffs and plant closures in Central Canada (where most of our tax paying citizens live).
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&a...earch&meta=
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&a...earch&meta=
Ya but these closures have been happening over the past 2-3 years. It's not like they are happening overnight. And some of these plants, namely the auto manufacturing plants are closing due to shitty management and marketing by the idiots in the suits making over a million a year.
IDK, I look at this stuff and I see it as a cycle. Everything happens in cycles. It just happens that the Oil cartels got the ball rolling. Really, I am sure you can look in the past and see that the same bloody thing happened back in the 80s. |
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| Graphicdude |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
His platform is out, and he plans to cut taxes to seniors by 1.1 Billion. Vote buying much? How exactly does this help the economy??
Good thing he's giving everyone a good opportunity to look at his platform with a week left to go. :rolleyes:
Do you understand why he would cut senior's taxes? Given the amount of inflation and the fact that seniors are on a fixed income, they need more so than most people. Do you lower their taxes or put them on the streets? Hmmmm....... |
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| ehos |
If everything happens in a cycle, then how does sticking to the same strategy help?
If times change, you need to adapt and change with them. Not keep the status quo and hope people are stupid enough not to notice. |
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| ehos |
quote:
Originally posted by Graphicdude
Do you understand why he would cut senior's taxes? Given the amount of inflation and the fact that seniors are on a fixed income, they need more so than most people. Do you lower their taxes or put them on the streets? Hmmmm.......
Where is that extra revenue going to come from? How does cutting senior's taxes help inflation?
You don't selectively cut taxes a week before the election unless you're trying to win some votes at the last minute.
Oh! You must mean the seniors he helped out by breaking his 'I won't change income trusts' promise right? How many seniors did he help with that brilliant move? |
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| Graphicdude |
Ya but remember, saying something and actually doing it are 2 different things. A lot of our esteemed political pundits always talk through their asses during election time and RARELY back up what they spew to us.
So really there is nothing to get pissed off about. This happens all the time. :D Get use to it. Until there are actual laws against lying or not backing up your election campaign promises, they will continue to do so without provocation. |
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| THUD |
Allot of countries are dumping US dollars for Euros or there simply just making there own money now, Argentina this week did that.
With to much of everything based on what oil does and the fact that our country and many others have moved all there manufacturing to china or elsewhere it will create a depression not a recession.
The UK, Germany and a bunch of other country's this week have been making moves to save themselves and this whole market thing is gonna make for isolated economy's everywhere.
Now Harper say's were doing fine and he is right, we are better off than many other places around the world and the fact that we don't have to bail out thousand's banks, we only have 5 major banks here which is way more manageable if shit hit the fan for them.
His government/our country has been preparing for this down turn since it went up, now Bush will say the economy is doing fine and that's what leaders have to do they must show no signs of weakness and Harper will say the same thing, if jack Layton was in power he would say the same thing too.
Them telling people it's ok can help stabilize the market, it's that whole power of thinking positive thing, Just think if Bush ran around saying were all gonna die it would cause a complete melt down of the world in one afternoon and not just the economy.
Now I know alot of the market has been manipulated in many way's to benefit only certain people and you can figure out what conspiracy theory fits but there's no doubt that greed and quest for power has led us all here.
This whole market correction was very predictable 2 years ago and the people who had the ability to manage it did not, many did try but ran into those walls setup by the ones who benefit from market manipulation.
Ft mac was doing just fine when a oil was around $50 but 2-3 years of crazyness has caught up with everyone since nobody tried to slow it or manage it properly it became a freeforall and now the cops have come to crash an already to outta control house party and we the lil people are the ones who will be left holding the cleaning bill.
We Canadians can ride this out even if china invades the USA cause they can't pay off there loans, it would be a little like post WW2 problems for us.
I don't like any of it but I do hope the people that can do something about it will and the people who still wanna freeforall get shoved into a hole. |
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| Beerking |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
Coming from someone with such a weak grasp of how the market/economy works, I think your post is pretty much worthless when it comes to money.
I do not get what you do not understand?
Do you take everyone's opinions seriously, do you think that everything I write I am serious about?
C'mon man, take it with a grain of salt.
I may not know everything about the economy, but at least I am not freaking out like you are. I have mad several jokes the last while about the economy and how shitty it is doing. If I knew nothing I would have freaked out like many and pulled out all my stocks, mutual funds and lost a lot of money.
You need to relax man.
If you think that you are going to have a tough time if Harper is re-elected, then you should be shitting your pants if one of the other boneheads gets the nod. |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by Graphicdude
IDK, I look at this stuff and I see it as a cycle. Everything happens in cycles. It just happens that the Oil cartels got the ball rolling. Really, I am sure you can look in the past and see that the same bloody thing happened back in the 80s.
Holy smokes, man. Do you remember the 80's? I remember living on a farm in the 80's. That's the last thing I want to see happen again.
And you just changed your tune. You said when you start seeing stocks falling in Canada and massive lay offs or plant closures then you'll believe there's something to worry about. Well, I showed you that's exactly what's happening. Sure, it's been happening over the last two or three years...... but it's still happening. We won't be in rags next week, but you shouldn't be putting your head in the sand over what is blatantly obvious.
Those jobs you're talking about are only Auto manufacturing jobs, I assume. You're wrong on that too. The jobs were lost because of a shift in the market, and a gas crisis caused that shift. Now our biggest buyer of... everything we sell is tanking. The people to the south are sitting on what little money they have left, which means they aren't buying our products or resources any more.
You asked to see the writing on the wall, and I showed it to you. It's time to look outside that protective bubble that surrounds the oil industry; a bubble that is getting dangerously thin.
And what you guys seem to forget is where Alberta was before the oil boom. That's where the rest of Canada is now. You had a massive boom in industry, and have all been revelling in this lifestyle of spending. *cough*So.Cal.*cough* Think about it man. If this is a cycle, then you're do for a major crash. Your current rate of income is completely unnatural. You can't really believe this will hold up forever.
quote:
If everything happens in a cycle, then how does sticking to the same strategy help?
Isn't it a definition of insanity to do the same thing over and over expecting different results? |
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| Graphicdude |
So, what? I'm suppose to start screaming and yelling and panicking about the job closers and that there is so many people without jobs? I'm suppose to do what?
Let's see how about I make sure I am ready for the financial crisis, if it happens, and make sure I am in a job that won't look like its going to be shut down tomorrow. That, Beerking, is all taken care of.
People lose jobs all the time. Like the other posters have said, there is shifts in the market place. We can keep going on and on about this, but my fingers are done typing for the day.
Bottom line is, I am not going to be scared about this "crisis" because I have chosen a career that cannot be replaced by some kid in India that can do the same thing as me, faster, cheaper and more creatively.
I suggest others should do the same if they are worried about their job. If you have learned anything, it is that plant jobs are not a good place for future employment. And invest early. :D |
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| ehos |
Let's separate the personal remarks from how I feel about the country. I short stocks (do you?). I am very VERY happy in this market. Up or down, it doesn't matter to me, I'm making money (are you?).
What my post is about is the rest of the country. You know all of Canada. And the election coming up. To be a conservative (small c) these days is to be a frog in steadily rising hot water.
Don't worry, things are FINE! Don't blink! |
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| Beerking |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
Let's separate the personal remarks from how I feel about the country. I short stocks (do you?). I am very VERY happy in this market. Up or down, it doesn't matter to me, I'm making money (are you?).
What my post is about is the rest of the country. You know all of Canada. And the election coming up. To be a conservative (small c) these days is to be a frog in steadily rising hot water.
Don't worry, things are FINE! Don't blink!
If I said something rude, I am sorry.
I am not saying either that things won't get bad, b/c I am well aware that they could. If we dip into a recession (pretty much there),or worse hit a depression then it will not be the fault of whatever gov't. I stand by Harper as of right now to lead us through the rocky road ahead and if he stinks the bed I can only blame myself tehn, but in my mind I do not think that any other party is actually ready for what could face this country.
I am ready myself if things are going to get bad, I am still enjoying my life as normal right now, but I am aware that it could change. I have assets set aside for the worst, but am not freaking out if they do. If I were to pull out all of my finances from the market today I would be down 28% in total, thats not bad if you think about how things are going. But I will play some luck and leave everything as is and maybe in 5 years I will be WAY on top, who knows.
The best thing Canadians can do is just be ready, know that tough times may be ahead and that things could get bad. Do not start freaking out though(1 reason why Harper says everything is fine...what would you do if our PM said "well, fuck, we all shit the bed on this one, everyman for himself"). Live your life as you would normally but do not go out and buy that 52" LCD that you have been saving up for, maybe just hold of for a few more months and see where we are at. But also do not keep yourself from buying things either, that will worsen the economy too.
It is all about SMART spending, LOCK up your wives boys, hahaha..j.j.:thumbup: |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by Graphicdude
So, what? I'm suppose to start screaming and yelling and panicking about the job closers and that there is so many people without jobs? I'm suppose to do what?
No, not at all. As someone already said, panicking will just make everything worse. I'm happy for you that you are in a job that should be secure during an economic downturn. I'm just trying to show you that there really is a downturn happening. You were denying it before.
What should you do? Vote. I'm going to vote for someone who recognises the troubles we're up against and intends to take action to ensure we don't lose even more jobs. And just in case we do continue to lose jobs, I'll be voting for someone who won't dismantle the social programs that will ensure my family has food on the table and wood on the fire. I remember the 80's, and I remember the 90's. I don't want my kids to have to drink powdered milk and get all their clothes from the Opp Shop (a local used clothing store where clothes are donated for those who can't afford new, like Value Village). I don't want to be forced to stop planning my family, because I can't afford to feed six mouths instead of four.
300ZXbabe, thanks for posting those. Anyone who remembers those times (I don't remember all of them), knows there was a slump in the mid seventies after the first gas crisis, I know the 1979 article had merit, and I know we went through a recession in the early 90's. They said it would happen, they overreacted (it's the media. That's how they operate), but in the end they were right. Every time they called an economic downturn it happened, and it's happening now. |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by oldraven
What should you do? Vote. I'm going to vote for someone who recognises the troubles we're up against and intends to take action to ensure we don't lose even more jobs.
If you're concerned about keeping jobs in Canada then don't vote for a party that wants to impose a carbon tax. |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
If you're concerned about keeping jobs in Canada then don't vote for a party that wants to impose a carbon tax.
Why not? Please explain how $50 a Tonne with a $50 tax write off for every Tonne reduced will lose us jobs. Harper plans to impose a plan to force a reduction in emissions, and that will cost corporations all the same. At least this system gives an incentive to improve instead of just forcing them to comply. |
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| Inzane |
| I just gave another look over the NDP website. Holy crap are they ever anti-free enterprise. :blink: |
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| FrozenSRT |
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
If you're concerned about keeping jobs in Canada then don't vote for a party that wants to impose a carbon tax.
That's a very weak and misleading argunment.
It's never been more apparent how out to lunch the Conservatives are with the average Canadian. The Polls are showing that most people are not going to let the Conservatives destroy our country or let a right wing nut job control things like a dictator.
Say good-bye to Harper and his pet rocks! |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Say goot-bye to Harper and his pet rocks!
You're dreaming.
We could do worse than Harper's Conservatives... a LOT worse. |
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| crzyone |
Harper has little to do with the slump in the economy. Nothing any Canadian politician can do will change the fact that our economy is directly tied to the US. Their economy goes down, so does ours. That's just part of being an exporing nation.
Car and truck plants are closing because they are offering a product people can't afford anymore. Who is buying SUVs and trucks with gasoline over $1 a liter?
People are so blind to the big picture.... Canada is a huge country with tons of natural resourses. When people stop buying those resourses in a recession, our economy goes down. Ever since our dollar has been high our cheap labor isn't there any more. That has probably hurt the Canadian auto sector harder than anything. It's no longer beneficial to have US car and trucks made here. They will close Canadian auto plants and move them where there is cheap labor, China/mexico. |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
Oh! You must mean the seniors he helped out by breaking his 'I won't change income trusts' promise right? How many seniors did he help with that brilliant move?
You are aware that while unfortunate as that move was by the Conservatives, they had the support of the NDP at the time. |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by crzyone
Canada is a huge country with tons of natural resourses. When people stop buying those resourses in a recession, our economy goes down.
Which is why it's not exactly the ideal time to put the screws to "big business" as some parties are proclaiming to want to do. Won't that just make things worse?
:dunno: |
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| ehos |
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
I just gave another look over the NDP website. Holy crap are they ever anti-free enterprise. :blink:
Proof or more hearsay?
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
We could do worse than Harper's Conservatives... a LOT worse.
Yup, we could have a CRAP majority government. :blink:
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
You are aware that while unfortunate as that move was by the Conservatives, they had the support of the NDP at the time.
The NDP are keeping true to what they believe (unfair tax advantages to certain business). The PC's broke their very exuberant, and often stated promise of 'WE WILL NOT TOUCH INCOME TRUSTS'. (Caps because Harper basically screamed it). Oops! What do the PC's stand for again? Who knows.
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
Which is why it's not exactly the ideal time to put the screws to "big business" as some parties are proclaiming to want to do. Won't that just make things worse?
:dunno:
So it's better to put the screws to regular Canadians that aren't part of the big corporations? Most Canadians are employed by small/medium business. Harpers corporate tax cuts are going to do nothing for them (and me, I run a small business). In return, I lose social program funding, nothing for the environment, no plan to get us through the tough times ahead. Just a 'don't blink' we'll be ok stay the course nothingness. Also there is no proof that cutting taxes = increased growth. All it does is increase the bottom line of big corporations with no corresponding re-investment of money.
You read their 'platform' what do you think about it? That 1.1 Billion dollar tax break to Seniors will really spark the economy and stay the course won't it? |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by Beerking
Interesting updates.....
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canadavotes/
And for you forzensrt
http://telegraphjournal.canadaeast..../article/439340
That first link was interesting. So Harper went to the leader's debate with nothing, NOTHING, but to say we're fine and we're gaining jobs. He got chewed out by all four competing parties and then a matter of days later he comes out with a platform that caters to all the issues he's been shown to ignore. Do you actually think any of this stuff will happen? It's one final attempt to convince voters that he's got a plan, even when he earlier said he didn't need a plan.
It's a transparent turnaround on his part to go from "Our economy is fine, there's nothing to worry about." to "We need to stop our manufacturing sector from becoming even more obsolete."
He's lying to you. Just like he lied through the entire campaign last time we went to the polls.
Good point, Ehos. I don't work for a corporation, and I also own a small business. I'm getting nothing out of Harper's deals except anxiety.
As for the Auto plants in Central Canada, what's to stop those factories from retooling just like so many south of the border. Layton has had a plan since the beginning of the election to help fund the retooling of these factories for compact and low emissions vehicles.
Harper is stealing bits and pieces from other platforms and acting in a completely reactionary way. He never would have even bothered with a platform if he didn't get owned in front of the nation for not having one. There would never have been a promise for aiding the manufacturing sector if he hadn't been exposed for ignoring them. I can almost guarantee you that when all is said and done, he'll go right back to his previous plan......... to keep on funnelling money into the tar sands and cater only to corporations that do not make Canadians richer, just foreign investors. We're raping our natural resources for America, and the average citizen is getting nothing for it. |
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| HiTempguy |
quote:
massive lay offs or plant closures then you'll believe there's something to worry about.
First of all, a government (NO GOVERNMENT) can stop bad business practices. All of the plants did not close because of something the government did, or did not do. They closed because their industry was in decline for whatever reason and they failed to take the necessary steps to make themselves profitable. And I will not even begin to talk about the auto sector *unions cough* End. Of. Story.
I also think you (this is a broad you for everyone hating on the Conservatives) are looking at the Conservatives point of view "everything is fine" incorrectly. Everything is fine... for a recession/depression. And once again, no government is going to be able to change that. They MIGHT be able to lesson the blow but either way certain jobs are screwed. It wouldn't matter if the NDP, Liberals, or Convservatives were elected (hell, even the greens)! Its still going down folks!
Finally, to actually dispute a point of contention; taking a $50 tax and then giving $50 back isn't really the case. And everyone should know this. The $50 is taken from the company, is then inefficiently handled by the government (who, suprisingly enough gets the money to run the show from us) and then finally is given back... and not necessarily to the business. So its more like saying in the end they take $70 in tax and give $50 back since there are expenses associated with taking the tax itself. It'd be like saying driving a car costs you $50 a month in gas. What about insurance and maintainence? Therefore, it is NOT revenue neutral. I actually like the Liberal's this time around. I'd think of voting for them IF they didn't have the green shift. But then I am reminded of the sponsorship scandal and I say no f*&kin' way. |
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| crzyone |
quote:
Originally posted by oldraven
As for the Auto plants in Central Canada, what's to stop those factories from retooling just like so many south of the border. Layton has had a plan since the beginning of the election to help fund the retooling of these factories for compact and low emissions vehicles.
Why should tax payers be held responsible for retooling the auto industry? Why should I have to pay higher tax because the auto sector is so short sighted? Why should we have to keep the unionized plants running?
Screw that... :thumbdown |
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| Graphicdude |
| I also agree, the Unions steal enough money from their members as is, why don't they pay to keep the plants running? |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
Proof or more hearsay?
Here's a few "nuggets" from the NDP website:
quote:
Outlaw the use of replacement workers in strikes or lockouts based on the proposed legislation that was killed during the 2007 Parliament by Stéphane Dion and Stephen Harper.
Make it harder to import from countries with unacceptable environmental, employment and wage standards.
End the special tax breaks for the tar sand projects, and the big oil and gas industry.
Reduce overcharging and hidden fees, and ban ATM fees for institutions regulated under the Bank Act
Limit outrageous interest rates and fees charged by "fringe banks".
Cap the interest rates on credit cards to a maximum of 5 percentage points over prime by amending the Bank Act.
We will end price gouging and "net throttling", preventing a two-tiered internet.
Ensure motorists can choose their own mechanic. New right-to-repair legislation will require automakers to make diagnostic software available to all repair shops and technicians.
^^^ All those represent a pattern. Basically mettling with "business". I'd call that anti-free enterprise. What do you call it?
On an unrelated note, here's an interesting one:
quote:
Provide greater support to working families that need assistance in managing their consumer and household debt.
WTF does that mean? That the government and taxpayers as a whole are responsible for bailing out those idiots that took on too much debt or tried to live beyond their means? Oops. |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by HiTempguy
I also think you (this is a broad you for everyone hating on the Conservatives) are looking at the Conservatives point of view "everything is fine" incorrectly. Everything is fine... for a recession/depression. And once again, no government is going to be able to change that. They MIGHT be able to lesson the blow but either way certain jobs are screwed. It wouldn't matter if the NDP, Liberals, or Convservatives were elected (hell, even the greens)! Its still going down folks!
And I never once said any party could stop a recession. But they can make policy that lessens the blow. Every aspect of our economy and how it is run is dictated by the Government of Canada. Saying they don't have a responsibility to make the most of the economy is dead wrong. If that weren't the case, Job Creation wouldn't be a basic platform element with every party.
quote:
Finally, to actually dispute a point of contention; taking a $50 tax and then giving $50 back isn't really the case. And everyone should know this. The $50 is taken from the company, is then inefficiently handled by the government (who, suprisingly enough gets the money to run the show from us) and then finally is given back... and not necessarily to the business. So its more like saying in the end they take $70 in tax and give $50 back since there are expenses associated with taking the tax itself. It'd be like saying driving a car costs you $50 a month in gas. What about insurance and maintainence? Therefore, it is NOT revenue neutral. I actually like the Liberal's this time around. I'd think of voting for them IF they didn't have the green shift. But then I am reminded of the sponsorship scandal and I say no f*&kin' way.
Still, it's an incentive to change, where other parties simply penalise a company by forcing them to comply. Would you take a deal where you have to pay millions to change practice, or would you take a deal where you get reimbursed for the efforts? $50 a Tonne really isn't a lot of money, and reducing a Tonne is incredibly easy. Anyone remember Mercer's One Tonne Challenge? If citizens can affordably drop a Tonne of emissions from their daily life (over a year) then a Corporation should be able to just as easily. We have grants to upgrade your insulation/roof/appliances from the Government, why not have the same for Corporations that will have to lower emissions anyway? |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by oldraven
and reducing a Tonne is incredibly easy.
Oh really... How do you figure that? |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by Graphicdude
I also agree, the Unions steal enough money from their members as is, why don't they pay to keep the plants running?
I actually agree with this a lot. Half the reason it's so expensive to build in Canada is because of the CAW (who's admittedly got a much better grasp on compromise than the UAW) and their insistence that their workers continue to make a ridiculous wage for the work they're doing. If their high wages are making for bad economics, then they should be held responsible for some of the costs associated with keeping the factories competitive. It's gotten to the point where job security is pretty far down the list of Union priorities.
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
Oh really... How do you figure that?
I took the one tonne challenge, that's how I know. |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by oldraven
I took the one tonne challenge, that's how I know.
Yes, but that is one tonne in absolute terms. For the big businesses, they will be taxed on # of tonnes per unit production. That will add up quick.
Sure, any of the oilsands plants could reduce their annual emissions by one tonne, no problem. I would agree with you on that. :lol: |
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| Cyanide Ride |
| I am voting for the group that won't try to disarm the entire country :) |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by Cyanide Ride
I am voting for the group that won't try to disarm the entire country :)
Ah yes, another good point. Thanks Andy. ;) |
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| Inzane |
Oh here's another one.
Harper is looking for tougher punishments on crimes. (eg gun crimes.)
Layton is looking for a complete ban on handguns. |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by Cyanide Ride
I am voting for the group that won't try to disarm the entire country :)
Are you talking about the banning hand guns rule? I don't think that's the same thing as disarming the country. That's about getting concealable weapons off the street.
Even still, we have pretty reasonable and effective gun control in Canada. I don't think we need to put any bigger restrictions on gun owners than we have. We already have laws that forbid civilians to carry concealable weapons, so why ban hand guns for collectors? |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by oldraven
Are you talking about the banning hand guns rule? I don't think that's the same thing as disarming the country. That's about getting concealable weapons off the street.
Even still, we have pretty reasonable and effective gun control in Canada. I don't think we need to put any bigger restrictions on gun owners than we have. We already have laws that forbid civilians to carry concealable weapons, so why ban hand guns for collectors?
I assumed Andy was talking about the military, but I agree with everything you just said.
Layton is barking up the wrong tree by bringing up more gun control issues IMO. |
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| FrozenSRT |
Don't blame the unions for the collapse of the auto industry.
This is a very complicated situation that finger pointing is just a weak and lazy argunment.
Our auto industry for the most part (not all but a greater portion) is getting screwed by the Japanese Automaker. Japan has illegal and unfair trading practices with Canada. Our Trade imbalance is $33 per $1 (For every $1 we send them in goods, they send us $33) The Japanese closed thier markets to foreign competition and dump thier products over here. (A Toyota in Japan costs more than a Toyota here in Canada)
The Japanese auto sector is heavily subsidized and controled by the Japanese Government (I beleive the popular term for you guys would be "A Pinko State")
In Ontario they lost over 55,000 jobs to unfair trading practices in the auto sector with Harper asleep at the wheel. This would never be allowed in Japan.
in 1992 Then President George Bush Senior went to Japan on a mission to save jobs in the auto sector in the US. This was just a dog and pony show for the US public, the US needs Japan to fund their H U G H E debt and needs the world to keep giving them unlimited credit cards, so by doing so they sell out their markets to foreign overseas ones. and the nasty trend continues.
Compound that with no universal health care (GM, Ford and Chrysler's largest supplier is Blue Cross!!!!!) and you get a failing auto industry.
Too many lawyers making a quick buck, a Government administration selling the auto sector out for loans, no heath care and you wonder why the world's largest automakers are sucking water out of Lake Michigan.
The Japanese have a open market to dump into, close thier markets and have a healthcare system and very few lawyers suing at a drop of a hat. That in turn makes higher quality cars, sustains jobs back home (Japan has not had a ressession since 1974) Not bad for a Pinko system as some of you put it.
We need leadership that wil disect these issues and get down to the bottom of it, not leaders that say "we seen this all before" and "steady as she goes" Thats what the captain of the doomed Titanic said! |
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| SilverE90 |
Do some of you guys remember what it was like with the Liberals running the place? Constant headlines of billions of dollars wasted on ineffective programs, one scandal after another, etc. And then when the Conservatives get their minority government and proceed to fulfill one of their promises with the Universal Child Care Benefit the Liberals go on to say how it isn't a good idea to just give money to parents because they are irresponsible and will just blow it on booze and gambling. I have two children and a stay at home wife and I am still pissed off about that comment. :mad:
I won't even talk about the NDP because I wouldn't trust them to run anything. |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by SilverE90
Do some of you guys remember what it was like with the Liberals running the place? Constant headlines of billions of dollars wasted on ineffective programs, one scandal after another, etc. And then when the Conservatives get their minority government and proceed to fulfill one of their promises with the Universal Child Care Benefit the Liberals go on to say how it isn't a good idea to just give money to parents because they are irresponsible and will just blow it on booze and gambling. I have two children and a stay at home wife and I am still pissed off about that comment. :mad:
I agree. That's why I in no way support the Grits. ;)
The beer and popcorn (not gambling, BTW) comment reminds me a lot of Klein's "Put on a sweater." comment, or MacDonald's "Buy a hybrid." comment. Both torries who wear their asses for hats. |
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| FrozenSRT |
Harper Child Care Benifit is a scam
1. It's Taxable income.
2. It's mad money for the well to do.
3. It created NO additonal spaces for childern
4. It does not even come close to what child care costs.
5. There is nobody saying to Harper "Show me where its working"
As for politicians dishing out rude comments we seen childish behavoir before from all parts of Canada. It's part of the political process to see it from time to time.
I am new out west, how lively does the Alberta Legislature get with angry politicians?
Ontario use to have some good show downs in its Leg.... |
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| ehos |
quote:
Originally posted by crzyone
Why should tax payers be held responsible for retooling the auto industry? Why should I have to pay higher tax because the auto sector is so short sighted? Why should we have to keep the unionized plants running?
Screw that... :thumbdown
Vote buying by Harper at the 11th hour. It's pretty typical.
Inzane: So basically you're against anything that helps out the common person.
-Your're FOR scab workers. Check.
- You're FOR trading with countries that don't care about the environment, or that use unfair employment standards. Check.
- You're FOR unfair taxation across industries (why should one industry be special?) Oil sands get HUGE tax breaks already.
- You want banks to use more hidden fees, charge more interest. Good one!
- You don't want inexpensive internet (there is price gouging in areas) or are you for monopolies?
- And finally you want Mechanics to continue to rip people off? Wow. :rolleyes:
quote:
Outlaw the use of replacement workers in strikes or lockouts based on the proposed legislation that was killed during the 2007 Parliament by Stéphane Dion and Stephen Harper.
Make it harder to import from countries with unacceptable environmental, employment and wage standards.
End the special tax breaks for the tar sand projects, and the big oil and gas industry.
Reduce overcharging and hidden fees, and ban ATM fees for institutions regulated under the Bank Act
Limit outrageous interest rates and fees charged by "fringe banks".
Cap the interest rates on credit cards to a maximum of 5 percentage points over prime by amending the Bank Act.
We will end price gouging and "net throttling", preventing a two-tiered internet.
Ensure motorists can choose their own mechanic. New right-to-repair legislation will require automakers to make diagnostic software available to all repair shops and technicians.
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| SilverE90 |
quote:
Originally posted by oldraven
The beer and popcorn (not gambling, BTW)
Ah I couldn't remember exactly, but either way it pisses me off.
quote:
Originally posted by FrozenSRT
Harper Child Care Benifit is a scam
1. It's Taxable income.
2. It's mad money for the well to do.
3. It created NO additonal spaces for childern
4. It does not even come close to what child care costs.
5. There is nobody saying to Harper "Show me where its working"
1. So what? It is still money parents didn't have before and it is taxable on the parent with the lower income. Stay at home mom, equals zero income equals zero tax. Granted I would still prefer to see it be tax free.
2. Please explain... :dunno:
3. What about people like myself and my wife that don't want to have someone else raise our children (although it does make for a nice scapegoat down the road if the kids turn out bad lol) and have a stay at home parent? We deal with significantly less income because of this so why should taxpayer money go towards child care spaces for the people that want the extra money of two incomes? If you want two incomes, you can afford child care. And there are plenty of spaces if you want to pay for it.
4. No, but it sure helps if you have a single income family with a stay at home parent. And there are already pretty good child care subsidy program for people that really need help. For a family with 2 children in day care they will recieve subsidy if they make less than 80k a year. Over that you shouldn't need help.
5. Again, I don't see the problem. They are giving parents the choice of what to do. |
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| ehos |
$2.67 a month is what Harper is giving extra. What a giver!
:lol: |
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| SilverE90 |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
$2.67 a month is what Harper is giving extra. What a giver!
:lol:
$2.67? :dunno: |
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| crzyone |
quote:
Originally posted by FrozenSRT
I am new out west
Couldn't have guessed... The anti conservative vibe out East is unbearable. Can't even listen to radio stations in Ontario they are so frigin biased. |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
-Your're FOR scab workers. Check.
I am very anti-union, anti-strike.
quote:
- You're FOR trading with countries that don't care about the environment, or that use unfair employment standards. Check.
I'm for right to choose trading partners. I didn't say I necessarily condone certain undesireable behaviour of those countries/partners.
quote:
- You're FOR unfair taxation across industries (why should one industry be special?) Oil sands get HUGE tax breaks already.
That "one special industry" happens to be our main bread-winner right now. I am in the industry so obviously I'm biased. The oil sands is very expensive business to explore, R&D, and cultivate. Incentives were and still are needed.
Companies like Syncrude and Suncor give back lots in terms of donations to schools, museums, scholarships, etc.
Its not all TAKE, and no give.
quote:
- You want banks to use more hidden fees, charge more interest. Good one!
I didn't say that. What I meant was banks are a BUSINESS, and they have a right to make money for their shareholders. I don't like fees any more than you do but what right does the government have to impose limits to a business's ability to make a profit?
quote:
- You don't want inexpensive internet (there is price gouging in areas) or are you for monopolies?
I'm not sure what you mean. Costs for internet service would be market driven, would it not?
quote:
- And finally you want Mechanics to continue to rip people off? Wow. :rolleyes:
I didn't say that either. However it is a business's right to protect their interests. If that means making it difficult to service your vehicle elsewhere, again why should the government interfere? If you don't like such practices (BMW comes to mind), don't buy that brand of car.
All I tend to hear from NDP supporters is a bunch of fucking whining. |
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| crzyone |
quote:
Originally posted by SilverE90
Do some of you guys remember what it was like with the Liberals running the place? Constant headlines of billions of dollars wasted on ineffective programs, one scandal after another, etc.
I was thinking the exact same thing. When the Liberals were in power the whole province was grumbling about the corrupt inept government. Since the conservatives took over people don't even talk about politics. I would say that is a good indication of people happy with their government.
It was one scandal after another under the Liberals. I don't understand how they have ANY support after ad scam and the billion dollar gun registry....
I hate how liberal supporters think. "Better the devil we know.." -Horseshit. |
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| FrozenSRT |
quote:
Originally posted by SilverE90
Ah I couldn't remember exactly, but either way it pisses me off.
1. So what? It is still money parents didn't have before and it is taxable on the parent with the lower income. Stay at home mom, equals zero income equals zero tax. Granted I would still prefer to see it be tax free.
2. Please explain... :dunno:
3. What about people like myself and my wife that don't want to have someone else raise our children (although it does make for a nice scapegoat down the road if the kids turn out bad lol) and have a stay at home parent? We deal with significantly less income because of this so why should taxpayer money go towards child care spaces for the people that want the extra money of two incomes? If you want two incomes, you can afford child care. And there are plenty of spaces if you want to pay for it.
4. No, but it sure helps if you have a single income family with a stay at home parent. And there are already pretty good child care subsidy program for people that really need help. For a family with 2 children in day care they will recieve subsidy if they make less than 80k a year. Over that you shouldn't need help.
5. Again, I don't see the problem. They are giving parents the choice of what to do.
2. People who are high salary earners certainlly do not need this money, it could have been put into people's pockets that do. In the matter of making spaces avalible, not thorwing cash out everywhere.
Yes I am from Ontario the Province that has NEVER collected equalization payments. |
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| SilverE90 |
^ but it is about too. :p
True if you really make a lot of money you don't need it but seeing as those people pay way more tax already it really isn't too big of a deal. And it isn't really a lot of money. The people that do need the help get it from the child care subsidy.
No system is ever going to be perfect, that is for sure. But it is far from a horrible one. |
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| FrozenSRT |
 |
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| crzyone |
quote:
Originally posted by FrozenSRT
2. People who are high salary earners certainlly do not need this money, it could have been put into people's pockets that do. In the matter of making spaces avalible, not thorwing cash out everywhere.
Spend spend spend. The publically funded child care system would be another multi billion dollar boondoggle by the liberal government. The liberals have proven that they can not handle large social programs responsibly.
The conservative plan has a fixed amount of money going directly to the parents. Much more cost effective and less likely to turn into another taxpayer scam.
In the end the conservative plan is more effective. |
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| crzyone |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by crzyone
:lol: :lol: Golden. |
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| FrozenSRT |
quote:
Originally posted by crzyone
Spend spend spend. The publically funded child care system would be another multi billion dollar boondoggle by the liberal government. The libers have proven that they can not handle large social programs responsibly.
The conservative plan has a fixed amount of money going directly to the parents. Much more cost effective and less likely to turn into another taxpayer scam.
In the end the conservative plan is more effective.
Like Hell it is....
We are not running a business we are running a country. You provide programs to help out where its needed not to make something cost effective just for the sake of it.
Granted saying that you also need to balance fiscal responsiblity with programs delivered. Bottom line our Country is miles and miles ahead of the USA and other nations that act like a corporation. Ask General Motors what it's stand on universal health care is now that they are in a pickel. |
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| ehos |
42 Billion deficit into 12 Billion under Harper. And he wants to stay the course. :rolleyes:
It's pretty bad when Liberals can manage money better than the so called economics guru. What school did he go to? Looks like Harper and Bush were school mates. |
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| Rich_A |
| at what point should I start hoarding cash? |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by crzyone
Couldn't have guessed... The anti conservative vibe out East is unbearable. Can't even listen to radio stations in Ontario they are so frigin biased.
As if it's not the exact same thing out west with the Tory brown-nosers. |
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| SilverE90 |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
42 Billion deficit into 12 Billion under Harper. And he wants to stay the course. :rolleyes:
It's pretty bad when Liberals can manage money better than the so called economics guru. What school did he go to? Looks like Harper and Bush were school mates.
Where are these numbers from? :dunno: |
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| Beerking |
quote:
Originally posted by oldraven
As if it's not the exact same thing out west with the Tory brown-nosers.
I would have to say....NO
It is not the same. Whether it be radio ads or tv ads or what not. I say it is 50-50. I have seen more anti harper ads here then pro.
And yes, I have been out east. I was in toronto and montreal last week for buisness. I think I saw 1 conservative banner and the rest were anti-harper...pretty gay to say the least. |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by SilverE90
Ah I couldn't remember exactly, but either way it pisses me off.
1. So what? It is still money parents didn't have before and it is taxable on the parent with the lower income. Stay at home mom, equals zero income equals zero tax. Granted I would still prefer to see it be tax free.
2. Please explain... :dunno:
3. What about people like myself and my wife that don't want to have someone else raise our children (although it does make for a nice scapegoat down the road if the kids turn out bad lol) and have a stay at home parent? We deal with significantly less income because of this so why should taxpayer money go towards child care spaces for the people that want the extra money of two incomes? If you want two incomes, you can afford child care. And there are plenty of spaces if you want to pay for it.
4. No, but it sure helps if you have a single income family with a stay at home parent. And there are already pretty good child care subsidy program for people that really need help. For a family with 2 children in day care they will recieve subsidy if they make less than 80k a year. Over that you shouldn't need help.
5. Again, I don't see the problem. They are giving parents the choice of what to do.
Come on, dude. $23 a week? You can't find a day care that will take less than $35 a day per child, and that's here in Antigonish where the cost of living is CONSIDERABLY lower than most places in Canada.
My wife and I also made the decision to have a parent stay home and raise our own kids. But we just don't live in the economic golden zone anymore. My wife now has had to go back to work part time. So that leaves us both working and just able to live comfortably. That's without TV (just air waves), with two secondary vehicles that we can't afford to keep on the road, and Angela and I taking our first vacation for just the two of us (we're sleeping in our car and hiking) since the summer we got home.
The Child Care Benefit is a joke. How about leaving the GST alone, keep your child care benefit, and give me a break on my income tax. There's no reason Ottawa needs a quarter of my annual earnings. |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by Beerking
I would have to say....NO
It is not the same. Whether it be radio ads or tv ads or what not. I say it is 50-50. I have seen more anti harper ads here then pro.
And yes, I have been out east. I was in toronto and montreal last week for buisness. I think I saw 1 conservative banner and the rest were anti-harper...pretty gay to say the least.
You need to come visit Pictou County, where it's Blue or GTFO. ;)
BTW, have you ever heard of The Western Standard? It doesn't get any more obvious than that. |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by FrozenSRT
LOL here is a Conservative Brain....
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=GJcMeG5d_bc
"Conservative Culture created this boom..."
Huh. I didn't know they changed the name of Petroleum to Conservative Culture. You learn something every day. |
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| crzyone |
If you wonder why the average Albertan hates the liberals so much you only need to look up the N.E.P.
The current liberal carbon tax plan is just another way to tax Alberta and Ontario to support social programs. |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by crzyone
If you wonder why the average Albertan hates the liberals so much you only need to look up the N.E.P.
The current liberal carbon tax plan is just another way to tax Alberta and Ontario to support social programs.
Because Alberta and Ontario are the only provinces with Industry?
You can also thank the Liberals for getting us a Canadian Constitution, and our Charter of Rights and Freedoms. The National Energy Program did screw the west, kind of like Harper screwed Nova Scotia and Newfoundland on the Atlantic Accord. |
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| crzyone |
Guess that's why they are liberal and we are conservative.
All the parties suck. The conservatives are the only party that most likely won't gouge me with new taxes so they are the party I'm voting for.
After all the various taxes we pay it ends up being close to 50% of our total income. I don't need more taxes to pay for various programs. The government needs to learn to do with what they already have.
Dion and the socialist NDP's can go to hell. |
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| SilverE90 |
quote:
Originally posted by oldraven
Come on, dude. $23 a week? You can't find a day care that will take less than $35 a day per child, and that's here in Antigonish where the cost of living is CONSIDERABLY lower than most places in Canada.
My wife and I also made the decision to have a parent stay home and raise our own kids. But we just don't live in the economic golden zone anymore. My wife now has had to go back to work part time. So that leaves us both working and just able to live comfortably. That's without TV (just air waves), with two secondary vehicles that we can't afford to keep on the road, and Angela and I taking our first vacation for just the two of us (we're sleeping in our car and hiking) since the summer we got home.
The Child Care Benefit is a joke. How about leaving the GST alone, keep your child care benefit, and give me a break on my income tax. There's no reason Ottawa needs a quarter of my annual earnings.
I never said it was a lot of money. But it was one of their platform promises and they kept it. Like I said at least it is more money than you had before. The plans of the liberals and ndp are very vague for child care spaces. The could spend a billion dollars to create new spaces but all it would do is lower the waiting lists at some daycares. You think the daycares are going to suddenly lower their daily or monthly rates? The system isn't great, but at least it is more money in your pocket with a minimal cost to taxpayers.
I personally agree with you that I would rather have seen them forget that and leave the gst where it was and only lower taxes. I like things simple personally. But the gst was another platform promise so seeing that they recieved more votes than the other parties, some people must have wanted it and I am glad to see them at least keep some promises. They also did lower the one tax rate.
Again I never said the system is ideal or what I would want if I could decide. But it is better than what the alternatives were with the other parties at the time. |
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| HiTempguy |
quote:
Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
Some people would say this document is a F*&KING joke. |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by SilverE90
Again I never said the system is ideal or what I would want if I could decide. But it is better than what the alternatives were with the other parties at the time.
I've never been a conservative, but I wasn't disappointed in the outcome of the last election. Because, as you say, the other options at the time weren't all that promising. I voted Green last time because I felt the Liberals deserved to squirm under a Tory Government. I didn't expect my vote to acomplish much in this riding, but It was a protest vote against the party I'd always voted for, and I wasn't going to vote for that absent goon MacKay. |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by HiTempguy
Some people would say this document is a F*&KING joke.
If so, there's no punch line. I think they were being pretty serious when it was drafted.
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/
Do you think this is a joke? |
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| ehos |
quote:
Originally posted by HiTempguy
Some people would say this document is a F*&KING joke.
Whaaa? At least man up and say YOU think it's a joke. And I only have one response to that, (and I stole it from the Americans).
LOVE IT OR LEAVE. There's the door, you're more than welcome to use it. |
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| ehos |
quote:
Originally posted by crzyone
All the parties suck. The conservatives are the only party that most likely won't gouge me with new taxes so they are the party I'm voting for.
Huh?
Liberals created the surpluses that the PC's have brought down.
How do you think they will pay for the Afghanistan war (28+Billion?), the loss of revenue from the GST (12+ Billion), and the corporate tax cut (50+ Billion)?
You got that right, YOU will eventually foot the bill. The budget is not balanced. |
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| Beerking |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
Huh?
Liberals created the surpluses that the PC's have brought down.
How do you think they will pay for the Afghanistan war (28+Billion?), the loss of revenue from the GST (12+ Billion), and the corporate tax cut (50+ Billion)?
You got that right, YOU will eventually foot the bill. The budget is not balanced.
Where are you getting these numbers?
Sure, you are making a lot of points, but NONE of them are backed up with any proof.
We get it Ehos, you hate Harper (loud and clear). And you LOVE the NDP, well good for you. The only thing is that you are so persistent that you have the same relentless attituted as cult members or Jehovas witness'. Did someone steal you in the middle of the night and do 'stuff' to you?
Enough. |
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| unlimited |
quote:
Originally posted by HiTempguy
Some people would say this document is a F*&KING joke.
:lol: :lol:
Who said that?? Why is it a joke to you?
Because I really don't think it is. |
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| SilverE90 |
| ^ how do you get "Harper supports Americans before he supports the average Canadian" from those videos??? :confused: |
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| crzyone |
quote:
Originally posted by FrozenSRT
Remember Harper Supports Americans before he supports the average Canadian
:loco: |
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| crzyone |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
Huh?
Liberals created the surpluses that the PC's have brought down.
the loss of revenue from the GST (12+ Billion)
Do you seriously think that Canadians are saving the extra 2% that was taken off the GST? I seriously doubt it. They are spending that extra 2% which is also being taxed at 5%. All low | | | |
