| JoshP2002 |
| The only thing I hear about war now tends to be another suicide bomber, or another Canadian dead. |
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| ehos |
quote:
Originally posted by JoshP2002
The only thing I hear about war now tends to be another suicide bomber, or another Canadian dead.
But, haven't you heard? We're bringing democracy to a pile of rocks. That's important!
The cost to you and me? 28 Billion. Harper allocated 0 new dollars to health care, education, arts, and a host of other things that Canadians don't care about.
But he sure set aside a big chunk of my money for them rocks! :rolleyes: |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by JoshP2002
The only thing I hear about war now tends to be another suicide bomber, or another Canadian dead.
And how it's impossible to win and we're currently losing ground.
This will be the first time in History that Canada has lost a war, all for someone else's revenge. |
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| Graphicdude |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
But, haven't you heard? We're bringing democracy to a pile of rocks. That's important!
The cost to you and me? 28 Billion. Harper allocated 0 new dollars to health care, education, arts, and a host of other things that Canadians don't care about.
But he sure set aside a big chunk of my money for them rocks! :rolleyes:
Whatever man, this is the least of our worries. Why not send them home? Also, are you the new Perilous Enterprise? You are sounding like a clone of him everyday you post a thread :D |
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| ehos |
quote:
Originally posted by Graphicdude
Whatever man, this is the least of our worries. Why not send them home?
EXACTLY! END THE WAR.
PC's/Libs want to continue and make us pay for it. NDP want to end it. They tried to end it, but 'they' voted it down.
It's Bush's war, not ours. We are paying for it. |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
It's Bush's war, not ours. We are paying for it.
Actually, if they pulled out now, I wouldn't consider it a lost war for Canada. At least no more than Vietnam. There were a lot of Canadians in that conflict too. What sucks the most is the 'Declared War' part of it all. It was on a concept. War on terror? That was the most dumbfounding thing I've heard from a head of state, let alone a pack of them. |
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| HiTempguy |
My question to everyone who doesn't like these "wars" we are in; what would happen if some group of people killed thousands of people in Canada? Would a "war" then be justified?
I admit I'm not really thrilled with any of the "wars" we are in. Canada should indeed place itself first before helping other countries (and I agree that nothing very good will have come out of being in Afghanistan OR Iraq except hatred towards us). But then comes the "what if" question of a rogue-type country attacking Canada. Then what do we do? |
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| Godzilla |
quote:
Originally posted by HiTempguy
My question to everyone who doesn't like these "wars" we are in; what would happen if some group of people killed thousands of people in Canada? Would a "war" then be justified?
I admit I'm not really thrilled with any of the "wars" we are in. Canada should indeed place itself first before helping other countries (and I agree that nothing very good will have come out of being in Afghanistan OR Iraq except hatred towards us). But then comes the "what if" question of a rogue-type country attacking Canada. Then what do we do?
it wasn't afghanistan that invaded the usa. it was al queda. i think it makes political sense to help the americans (get on their good side, they are some what powerful if you didn't know) but i'm still against the war. |
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| ehos |
quote:
Originally posted by HiTempguy
My question to everyone who doesn't like these "wars" we are in; what would happen if some group of people killed thousands of people in Canada? Would a "war" then be justified?
I admit I'm not really thrilled with any of the "wars" we are in. Canada should indeed place itself first before helping other countries (and I agree that nothing very good will have come out of being in Afghanistan OR Iraq except hatred towards us). But then comes the "what if" question of a rogue-type country attacking Canada. Then what do we do?
Seriously. Harper even admitted going into Iraq would've been a mistake.
Afghanistan is a mistake. Let's not talk pretend hypotheticals to make a bad REAL situation go away.
You can't defeat an 'ism' with weapons. Surely you must know that? |
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| HiTempguy |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
Seriously. Harper even admitted going into Iraq would've been a mistake.
Afghanistan is a mistake. Let's not talk pretend hypotheticals to make a bad REAL situation go away.
You can't defeat an 'ism' with weapons. Surely you must know that?
So, since we cannot defeat an "ism" with weapons, how do we? When I go through my limited knowledge of meddling the USA (and by extension Canada) has done, I would see this (the meddling) as the problem. Did Iraq/Afghan have hatred towards us before WW2 for instance? What about before the cold war? I doubt they hated the west then. So how do you change it? What would you suggest Ehos? What would you do? *being serious*
Edit-
I understand that Canada isn't in Iraq, correct? So I really mean just Afghan in regards to Canada, but Iraq/Afghan as a total (small) piece of the problem.
Oh, and I never said there would be an attack. In fact, I doubt there would be. But it would be like you saying "why have an army?" Nothing is ever for certain, and I'd rather take action to stop a perceived risk. |
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| shorti |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
You can't defeat an 'ism' with weapons. Surely you must know that? [/B]
What about Ehosism? We can only hope. |
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| Invalid Zero |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
You can't defeat an 'ism' with weapons. Surely you must know that?
Sure can! Level that whole shit part of the world (what good is ever going to come from it?) and when hippies and other fundies start protesting in the west, arrest them all and gas them! |
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| onelowvdub2.0 |
| i9f its ndp that wants to end war then its a vote for ndp from me..and im sure a billion others |
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| little_one_der |
quote:
Originally posted by onelowvdub2.0
i9f its ndp that wants to end war then its a vote for ndp from me..and im sure a billion others
I vote NDP. I agree 100% with their plan for Canada. It's sad though, they will only get a couple hundred thousand votes. I fucking hate people that bitch about stuff like the war, and don't go and vote for a party that wants to get out of the middle east. |
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| ehos |
Phew! Only 18.1 Billion.
That's $1500 for every household in Canada. Good job guys!
Good thing Harper isn't raising 'taxes'. He'll just collect on the back end. |
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| ehos |
quote:
Originally posted by onelowvdub2.0
i9f its ndp that wants to end war then its a vote for ndp from me..and im sure a billion others
This is how you defeat 'ism's. You educate people. You make your case and you try to change things with facts and acts.
The NDP DID vote to end the war. The Liberals voted alongside the PC to continue the war. The bill was defeated.
PC's want to continue the war that will cost us more money through 2011 and possibly longer. |
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| Emerson |
quote:
Originally posted by little_one_der
I vote NDP. I agree 100% with their plan for Canada. It's sad though, they will only get a couple hundred thousand votes. I fucking hate people that bitch about stuff like the war, and don't go and vote for a party that wants to get out of the middle east.
Regardless if they vote NDP EVERYONE should vote or shut the fuck up
End of story. |
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| little_one_der |
^^^
Here here! |
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| BigTrucker |
quote:
Originally posted by little_one_der
I vote NDP. I agree 100% with their plan for Canada. It's sad though, they will only get a couple hundred thousand votes. I fucking hate people that bitch about stuff like the war, and don't go and vote for a party that wants to get out of the middle east.
The NDP want to tax everybody more and then give you more crappy government programs as they try and look like the good guys. I will never support the NDP based on the sole fact that they prefer to hold criminals hands instead of punish them for the crimes they commit. When the Libs and NDP did not support the PC's bill to toughen up jail times and punishments, they lost a ton of respect in my books.
I'm glad our boys are over in Afghanistan, the more we kill over there the less that threaten us in our own backyard later. |
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| little_one_der |
quote:
Originally posted by BigTrucker
The NDP want to tax everybody more and then give you more crappy government programs as they try and look like the good guys. I will never support the NDP based on the sole fact that they prefer to hold criminals hands instead of punish them for the crimes they commit. When the Libs and NDP did not support the PC's bill to toughen up jail times and punishments, they lost a ton of respect in my books.
I'm glad our boys are over in Afghanistan, the more we kill over there the less that threaten us in our own backyard later.
You are very much entitled to your own opinion, just make sure your allegations are correct.
With the NDP, at least they are telling you what they will be spending taxes on. Unlike the Conservatives (what taxes? we don't have any taxes), and the Liberals (we will not tax you... yeah right)
NDP's stand on crime
And if you feel Afghanistan is a threat, why don't you head over there and help out? Can you show me proof that Afghanistan, or the taliban, or Al Quaida has made a direct threat to Canada? |
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| BigTrucker |
quote:
Originally posted by little_one_der
You are very much entitled to your own opinion, just make sure your allegations are correct.
With the NDP, at least they are telling you what they will be spending taxes on. Unlike the Conservatives (what taxes? we don't have any taxes), and the Liberals (we will not tax you... yeah right)
NDP's stand on crime
And if you feel Afghanistan is a threat, why don't you head over there and help out?
We are in Afghanistan because it is a U.N. sanctioned military operation. http://milnewsca.wordpress.com/2007...-un-sanctioned/ Not because Harper loves George W. Bush (which isn't always a bad thing) but because we have a commitment to the world and we are owning up to it.
quote:
Can you show me proof that Afghanistan, or the taliban, or Al Quaida has made a direct threat to Canada? [/B]
Osama Bin Laden threatend Canada directly in one of his cave videos. That's enough for me to give the green light to the troops to keep kicking ass.
http://www.news24.com/News24/World/...2022147,00.html
It's very clear that we have two seperate views of how Canada should be run. I'm all for having a free market system where if you want something you have to work for it, not expect the government to give it to you. |
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| Arikara1985 |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
This is how you defeat 'ism's. You educate people. You make your case and you try to change things with facts and acts.
The NDP DID vote to end the war. The Liberals voted alongside the PC to continue the war. The bill was defeated.
PC's want to continue the war that will cost us more money through 2011 and possibly longer.
Did you just say educate people? You can't educate extremists. Extremists will never listen to reason, they'd rather just cut your head off first.
As for who attacked on 9/11, technically Afghanistan did. The Taliban was in direct control of the country, there for that country attacked. It would be like saying "The Americans aren't at fault for the invasion, only the Republicans are".
If we pull out before the mission is complete, then it is a failure. On top of that, every person who has lost their life or been wounded would have been for nothing.
I never served in Afghanistan, but I did serve in Iraq while in my very short enlistment in the USMC. I have the 18 inch scar on my back to remember my time there (took shrapnel in the back, was lucky it never severed my spinal cord). Do I regret being there and being wounded? Not in the least bit, I'd go back if I could. |
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| anschutz_93 |
Some background knowledge (as I remember from Social 30... which I never went to lol)
Iraq (actually middle east in general but w/e)
-Ottoman's ruled a lot of Arab territory, for a long time. Arab people weren't very impressed... England tricked the Arabs into getting rid of the Ottomans/Germans, promising them independence after WW1.
-After WW1, Middle East broken up into mandates, under control of league of nations. Some very pissed off arabs at this point but w/e they dealt with it. They really fucked up in Iraq, where they took away Kuwait... England was having one hell of a time, lots of business coming in oil/stuff from India act. England happy, Arabs not so much.
-Mandates pretty much abandoned in the 20's? anyways Britain ends up making Iraq a puppet state. They still 'aint happy.
-middle east eventually let to rule itself but the west just kinda went and fucked off leaving some very messed up countries. Governments formed were pretty anti-west.
Israel (none of this really matters, only thing you have to take away from this is the west pissed off more muslims)
-So, WWII jews got burnt in Germany. West felt bad about this, gave them Israel. Jews wanted this piece of land for a while... too bad muslims wanted to chill in Jerusalem as well. Pakistan tried to take it back, didn't work.
-Egypt being arab and such got all up in this BS, fought over suez canal... fun times.
Bin Laden is merely a product of his environment. Western powers kept fucking around with the middle east over oil and trade routes with India. Arabs have hated the west for almost 100 years and rightly so. I sound like a faggot but US really is in Iraq for Oil (among other economic reasons). Afghanistan didn't attack the US, the Taliban didn't attack the US; AL QUADA attacked the US. The Taliban is a political ideology that was in power in Afghanistan. They just didn't give a shit that Bin Laden was hanging out in 'teh mountains. IMO Afghanistan was better off with the Taliban (but I'm probably a little more conservative than most). The Taliban were needed to keep all those people under check, now we've taken them away and they gone a set up a bunch of war lords... great a lot better. Regardless imperialism is still rocking strong. |
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| Don B |
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| Tech2 |
quote:
Originally posted by anschutz_93
Arabs have hated the west for almost 100 years and rightly so.
Yeah, they never hated others before that :rolleyes: . Not the black africans they kidnapped for slavery, not the Europeans they killed and enslaved while invading the continent. Not the Indians they did the same to.
I appreciated your side of the history lesson, but lets keep some things in mind: One is that Arabs aren't some useless group of people who have no part in their own history or politics. Two is that the expansion of Islam has always been at the end of a spear, with concepts like dhimmitude and non-muslim slavery as supporting philosophies. Three is that AQ is generally arab, which can be seen in the "foregin fighters" in afghanistan and pakistan, while afghans are indo-european, have a long history of dealing with invasions and a culture of saying foreigners should be kicked out of the country (even if you're serving them a dinner in your home because you also have a culture of amazing hospitality).
My real point is that most folks pay attention to the western side of the issue, both present and historically. In my opinion it's rude and arrogant not to take into account the local histories and cultures. It's even more rude and arrogant to think these other places are so simple that they have only ever had political histories after white folks went there. The very most rude and arrogant thing is when people figure non-whites act only in passive reaction to something white folks did. And it's just an as ignorant an idea coming from an afghani farmer as it is coming from an american historian or an associated press reporter. |
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| moogle254 |
quote:
[i]
I'm glad our boys are over in Afghanistan, the more we kill over there the less that threaten us in our own backyard later. [/B]
i am now aware that you are a retard |
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| BigTrucker |
quote:
Originally posted by moogle254
i am now aware that you are a retard
How so? Please elaborate on your statement for me.
I am under the general impression that by taking the fight to them, killing them in their home country, they are less able to mount any sort of offensive or attack against Canada. |
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| little_one_der |
| Those statements are just very Republican/American. |
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| Arikara1985 |
quote:
Originally posted by little_one_der
Those statements are just very Republican/American.
And there is a problem with that? |
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| Tech2 |
No man, being "anti" is clever so long as "american" comes after it.
Unless you're Taliban or Al Queda, in which case "anti" also works very well with "hindu", "buddist", "jewish" or "christian", at least according to both their statements and actions. |
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| Tuner01 |
quote:
Originally posted by BigTrucker
I'm glad our boys are over in Afghanistan, the more we kill over there the less that threaten us in our own backyard later.
dude why are you being so ignorant? the more we kill over there the less that threaten us in our own backyard later?
Ignorant cowards who speak like is the reason war will never end.
I think some soldiars are cowards too , going into a third world country fighting third world people who do not even have the amount of firepower and technology the U.S has. I mean if you want to go over to Afhganistan for oil , SAY IT. Why all these lies in media,books,newspapers,cartoons,comics,news, why??
Why is everyone blinded from the truth. IS what we see what we have to believe???? what about thousands and millions of those innocent Afghanis ?? why not think about them? what about the poor children who are forced to fight , what about the old men who are forced to fight because the Country they live in is supposed to be lived in a way another Country wants it too?
This world is Fked , there wil never be peace!! Nobody will be happy and our childrens childrens will grow up learning that revenge is the sweetest method. |
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| Tech2 |
| That's a joke right? |
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| onelowvdub2.0 |
quote:
Originally posted by Tuner01
dude why are you being so ignorant? the more we kill over there the less that threaten us in our own backyard later?
Ignorant cowards who speak like is the reason war will never end.
I think some soldiars are cowards too , going into a third world country fighting third world people who do not even have the amount of firepower and technology the U.S has. I mean if you want to go over to Afhganistan for oil , SAY IT. Why all these lies in media,books,newspapers,cartoons,comics,news, why??
Why is everyone blinded from the truth. IS what we see what we have to believe???? what about thousands and millions of those innocent Afghanis ?? why not think about them? what about the poor children who are forced to fight , what about the old men who are forced to fight because the Country they live in is supposed to be lived in a way another Country wants it too?
This world is Fked , there wil never be peace!! Nobody will be happy and our childrens childrens will grow up learning that revenge is the sweetest method.
double quote |
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| Tech2 |
quote:
Originally posted by Tuner01
what about thousands and millions of those innocent Afghanis ?? why not think about them? what about the poor children who are forced to fight , what about the old men who are forced to fight because the Country they live in is supposed to be lived in a way another Country wants it too?
Actually, I'll take this part. I mean, what would you expect if a bunch of arabs showed up supported by saudi money to build terrorist training facilities, bomb making schools, and religious propaganda outlets in your country, then they started telling you to stop dancing, grow beards, and put your women away or they would kill you. Silly foreigners trying to make people live the way THEY want! Maybe that's why the Northern Alliance fought against them for years before any western folks went in with force.
Now forgetting for a moment that Afghans have been fighting all on their own for as long as we have written records, I don't think you really meant "those" (non-western) kinds of other countries or tribal groups, now did you? |
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| ehos |
The Iraq war is lost. The Afghan war is lost. We are in delusional state of mind.
We're losing money for no reason. It's not going to curb 'terrorism'. It's not going to help the Afghani people. Bush was 100% wrong. Harper is wrong. Neo-cons got it wrong. Deal with it.
Canada has lost it's first war. Period. It's stupid to keep throwing money down a well for no reason.
There is only one party that can end the war in Afghanistan and stop the nonsense. NDP. |
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| BigTrucker |
quote:
Originally posted by Tuner01
dude why are you being so ignorant? the more we kill over there the less that threaten us in our own backyard later?
Ignorant cowards who speak like is the reason war will never end.
I think some soldiars are cowards too , going into a third world country fighting third world people who do not even have the amount of firepower and technology the U.S has. I mean if you want to go over to Afhganistan for oil , SAY IT. Why all these lies in media,books,newspapers,cartoons,comics,news, why??
Why is everyone blinded from the truth. IS what we see what we have to believe???? what about thousands and millions of those innocent Afghanis ?? why not think about them? what about the poor children who are forced to fight , what about the old men who are forced to fight because the Country they live in is supposed to be lived in a way another Country wants it too?
This world is Fked , there wil never be peace!! Nobody will be happy and our childrens childrens will grow up learning that revenge is the sweetest method.
Our Soldiers are cowards? Really? I'm pretty sure your nice and cozy saying that statement behind a monitor because if you said it to almost anybodys face, you would get punched. Our soldiers are the bravest people we have in Canada, if you don't like it, walk onto their base, talk your smack and see what happens.
I'm not going to argue this point any more. The fact that you took a cheap shot at our soldiers is as low as you can get, but I guess since they are all cowards, your the tough guy around here. |
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| ehos |
Our soldiers are the best men in the world. There is no need for even ONE of them to die fighting a lost cause, and defending rocks.
If you value our soldiers lives, then you would vote to end the war. |
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| Tuner01 |
quote:
Originally posted by BigTrucker
Our Soldiers are cowards? Really? I'm pretty sure your nice and cozy saying that statement behind a monitor because if you said it to almost anybodys face, you would get punched. Our soldiers are the bravest people we have in Canada, if you don't like it, walk onto their base, talk your smack and see what happens.
I'm not going to argue this point any more. The fact that you took a cheap shot at our soldiers is as low as you can get, but I guess since they are all cowards, your the tough guy around here.
I said SOME soldiers not ALL , read properly.
I am Canadian , and I do not think Canada should have jumped into Afghanistan, but I have no power over that.
I hate those Soldiers who go to Afghanistan and rape woman and kill the innocent people and laugh at and talk shit when they have killed them , I seen it in videos and I heard soldiers laughing and saying " fuck those moslems they all deserve to die". There is lot of HATE.
I do not see why Hundreds of Thousands have to die for what??? Why are they never spoken about??
All we see is in the news is " one Canadian soldier got killed" , or " two Americans died" . Whats going on in Afhganistan does anyone know?
Lot of Unjustice
And I do not like your comment...
"I'm glad our boys are over in Afghanistan, the more we KILL over there the less that threaten us in our own backyard later."
I think that was a ignorant thing you said.
Why dont you go to Afhganistan and talk shit infront of the Afghani soldiers? go ahead. They will eat you alive.
This is not the way to end war, and the MORE WE KILL is not the answer , this way of thinking there will never be peace that is all in this world EVER. THat is the way the poisonous president speaks and all other ignorant racist bastards who have hearts filled with HAte.
If you think killing them is NOT the answer. |
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| Arikara1985 |
quote:
Originally posted by Tuner01
dude why are you being so ignorant? the more we kill over there the less that threaten us in our own backyard later?
Ignorant cowards who speak like is the reason war will never end.
I think some soldiars are cowards too , going into a third world country fighting third world people who do not even have the amount of firepower and technology the U.S has. I mean if you want to go over to Afhganistan for oil , SAY IT. Why all these lies in media,books,newspapers,cartoons,comics,news, why??
Why is everyone blinded from the truth. IS what we see what we have to believe???? what about thousands and millions of those innocent Afghanis ?? why not think about them? what about the poor children who are forced to fight , what about the old men who are forced to fight because the Country they live in is supposed to be lived in a way another Country wants it too?
This world is Fked , there wil never be peace!! Nobody will be happy and our childrens childrens will grow up learning that revenge is the sweetest method.
So hold up. We're cowards because we are better equipped then they are? If you're in a war zone, no matter who you are fighting you want the best possible equipment. It just so happens that we have it.
Last time I checked, Afghanistan has fuck all for oil. Now if you said Iraq, we might be able to argue that one out (I was there, not a lot of oil taken by us). As for the Afghanis (or in my case, the Iraqi's), I couldn't care less about them to be honest, when I was in Iraq all I cared about was my safety and the safety of the men around me. Why should I care about someone who will smile to my face then after I turn around try to shoot me in the back?
As for ehos. The war in Afghanistan and Iraq has not been lost. No Western country has lost a war in over 60 years. Even Vietnam was not lost. We have won every major engagement, if we were given more freedom over there instead of handing our hands tied behind our backs due to the hippies back home we would be able to get a lot more done as well.
quote:
Originally posted by Tuner01 All we see is in the news is " one Canadian soldier got killed" , or " two Americans died" . Whats going on in Afhganistan does anyone know?
Because to the average person, the lives of our soldiers is more important then the lives of someone in a nation we are fighting a war in. Civilians always have and always will die in war and there is no changing that. |
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| zhao |
u stop hate by eliminating ignorance, and you do that by education. pulling out of afghanistan now would not solve one thing in that country, and if anything, would cause more hate; staying, rebuilding some of the country, and starting up education there is how you stop hate.
btw, if everyone pulled out of afghanistan right now, wtf do u think would happen? sounds like some people think there'd be parades in the streets with flowers and sunshine and food and money for all. some people need to give their head a shake. |
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| Tech2 |
quote:
Originally posted by zhao
sounds like some people think there'd be parades in the streets with flowers and sunshine and food and money for all. some people need to give their head a shake.
Absolutely. |
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| ehos |
quote:
Originally posted by Arikara1985
As for ehos. The war in Afghanistan and Iraq has not been lost. No Western country has lost a war in over 60 years. Even Vietnam was not lost. We have won every major engagement, if we were given more freedom over there instead of handing our hands tied behind our backs due to the hippies back home we would be able to get a lot more done as well.
Vietnam was lost. Get over your delusions. Does this look like 'victory' to you? Another Neo-con attempt to revise history. It's quite laughable.
:lol:
Iraq/Afghanistan are lost. We're in the denial phase right now. |
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| STiPWR |
Its taking alot of effort not to start a flame war in here.
There are some valid points on both sides, so I will state mine.
For those in here who don't know, I did 3 tours (6months each) in Afghanistan. 1PPCLI front lines, Infantry. I have lost 3 good friends, and numerous fellow battalion buddies.
Saying that it isnt 'fair' because of our technology is the most retarded thing i've heard. Thats life, thats war. It isnt fair. The Taliban use atrocity, we dont.... and thats probably the most effective inhumane tool in war.
We went over there with the intentions to help, not to "kill Taliban". Those that interfered, did pay the price and we have no regrets. Over 30 full combat ambushes, and we never fired first.
Believe it or not, I have heard it FIRST HAND from some of the village leaders mouths, that they appreciate our help. But they are scared they will get be-headed or there opium fields burnt if they accepted out offers or associated with us.
We provided schools, food/farming equipment, and security for those who requested it. The intention was there to help, it has nothing to do with "oil" or "baglicking" the US.
The country needs help... Kabul has moved ahead light years (establishing a new government, creating a military) since NATO stepped in. Kandahar will take longer but it is on its way.
For those that think its a wasted effort, it may be..... but at least we tried to better a country in need.. Sitting on your computer talking shit, isnt accomplishing anything.
Go pick a side and fight for it, (political or military) or GTFO. |
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| STiPWR |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
Vietnam was lost. Get over your delusions. Does this look like 'victory' to you? Another Neo-con attempt to revise history. It's quite laughable.
:lol:
Iraq/Afghanistan are lost. We're in the denial phase right now.
WTF are you talking about, your comments are the most retarded shit I've read.
Vietnam/Afghanistan are nothing alike.
Hearing you bitch/moan for the last 3 years is starting to get on my nerves.
You do nothing except watch/read corrupted media, and make up your own convoluted opinions on world events.. Go do something with your life. Im sick of hearing your gums flap... only thing you seem to know how to do. |
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| Rich_A |
NDP: Good to vote for to get rid of all the new problems in the past ~5-7 years.
Horrible for all the problems we've wanted to fix for the past 10+
NDP is too god damned obsessed with gaining our support because they can fix our newest / latest issues, but if you take every problem Canada itself has had that hasn't changed or has been remedied in the last few years - NDP will completely abolish any progress we have made and amplify problems that are pretty much on a back-burner with everyones stupid war opinions.
Plus I think they tried to say Harper is to blame for little girls having asthma. Their ads show such. |
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| Arikara1985 |
Vietnam was not lost. Every major engagement in the war was won. It was the hippies back home that made US forces pull out. A war is lost when you are defeated and unable to fight back (see Germany and Japan in WWII). The US was very much able to fight still during Vietnam. Just like now with Afghanistan and Iraq. Just because our goal isn't complete (there has been a lot of progress made and things are getting better, ask people who have been there not the fucking media who blows everything out of perportion), but with time it will be.
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
Vietnam was lost. Get over your delusions. Does this look like 'victory' to you? Another Neo-con attempt to revise history. It's quite laughable.
:lol:
Iraq/Afghanistan are lost. We're in the denial phase right now.
And like STiPWR said, we've made things better there whether you want to believe the people who've been there or the media who is just trying to sell a story. Parts of Afghanistan and Iraq now have running water, electricity, schools and hospitals because of what we've done. Just because the media and the fucking liberals like to downplay the significance of what we are trying to do doesn't mean nothing hasn't been accomplished. |
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| Tech2 |
| Not only was the US able to fight back, but after the Tet (suicide) offensive, the Viet Cong weren't. |
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| ehos |
quote:
Originally posted by STiPWR
WTF are you talking about, your comments are the most retarded shit I've read.
Vietnam/Afghanistan are nothing alike.
Hearing you bitch/moan for the last 3 years is starting to get on my nerves.
You do nothing except watch/read corrupted media, and make up your own convoluted opinions on world events.. Go do something with your life. Im sick of hearing your gums flap... only thing you seem to know how to do.
So let me guess, you're judge and jury of how people live their lives now?
Man, get off your fucking high horse. I'll post my opinion of a lost war all I want. That's great you went to Afghanistan, but I'm sure you would be singing a different tune if you had your legs blown off.
Having Canadian soldiers die in Afghanistan so we can give them food/water/electricity is stupid. Want to help Afghanistan, send them a Billion Dollars and be done with it. We don't owe them anything. We aren't in the middle east to help anyone except Bush and his neo con cronies. WE got suckered, just like you soldier boy.
You're a good soldier, you do what you're told without thinking. But you're not a soldier now, go read a book or something son. |
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| Arikara1985 |
Helping people who can not help themselves is the whole point of being a Peace Keeper. When you are one of the richest countries in the world you should so something to help. I guarentee just about everyone killed in Iraq and Afghanistan believed in what they are doing.
I never got my legs blown off, but I was rendered immobile and hospitalized for nearly a year after being wounded by an IED. Hell I even gained 80lbs due to the incident (meds I was on + being unable to walk does hell to your physique). It ruined my career in the Marines, yet I still fully support the war and if I was able to I would gladly go back.
Saying we don't owe Afghanistan or any country for that matter anything is like saying we shouldn't help our poor, elderly and sick here. Just because their 15,000 miles away doesn't mean they don't need outside help. If we sent Afghanistan a billion dollars we'd just be supporting terrorism because they'll be the ones getting the money not the ones who need it.
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
So let me guess, you're judge and jury of how people live their lives now?
Man, get off your fucking high horse. I'll post my opinion of a lost war all I want. That's great you went to Afghanistan, but I'm sure you would be singing a different tune if you had your legs blown off.
Having Canadian soldiers die in Afghanistan so we can give them food/water/electricity is stupid. Want to help Afghanistan, send them a Billion Dollars and be done with it. We don't owe them anything. We aren't in the middle east to help anyone except Bush and his neo con cronies. WE got suckered, just like you soldier boy.
You're a good soldier, you do what you're told without thinking. But you're not a soldier now, go read a book or something son.
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| walkur1 |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
So let me guess, you're judge and jury of how people live their lives now?
Man, get off your fucking high horse. I'll post my opinion of a lost war all I want. That's great you went to Afghanistan, but I'm sure you would be singing a different tune if you had your legs blown off.
Having Canadian soldiers die in Afghanistan so we can give them food/water/electricity is stupid. Want to help Afghanistan, send them a Billion Dollars and be done with it. We don't owe them anything. We aren't in the middle east to help anyone except Bush and his neo con cronies. WE got suckered, just like you soldier boy.
You're a good soldier, you do what you're told without thinking. But you're not a soldier now, go read a book or something son.
1. Sending money to a corrupt government is the most ridiculous proposal I've ever heard. Would sending money to the death camps in WWII have helped? IMO, not at all.
2. We might not legally owe "them" anything, but I'm sure if the roles were reversed, you'd appreciate having some help from countries who are much more fortunate than yours.
3. Calling any man or woman who serves/has served in the military a "soldier boy/girl" is completely unacceptable and arrogant. There may come a day when disaster (natural or human) strikes close to home, and I know that when that day comes, I can rest somewhat more comfortably because I know that there are men and women out there who are willing to risk their lives to protect the country that we believe in. You have no idea what experiences these people will have or have been through.
All I know is, again, how grateful I am for people who have the courage to give their lives for others. You should show a little more respect... IMO. |
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| walkur1 |
@ Arikara1985:
Well said. You beat me to it. |
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| Tech2 |
For you guys posting up with experience, insight, or at least something thoughtful to say don't worry about ehos, that's just his style. For all his "you got suckered by the media" talk, where did he get his info about american neo-con conspiracy shadow government Bush controls the world stuff? He might post up links like he's done in other threads, but they'll be to islamic conspiracy or real left wing "news" sites. US lost the military war in vietnam, we're in afghanistan for oil, islam began in peace... what was that about not believing everything you read/hear/see?
As for sending a billion dollars to those poor afghan farmers, cuz no one would steal it from them like in somalia, it's also right up ehos's philosophical alley, as you can read about in one of our many threads on giving money to bums.
So let him vote NDP. Him and the 2000 others who can enjoy their sense of smug.  |
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| ehos |
Canada isn't peacekeeping in Afghanistan. You are free to move to Afghanistan/Iraq and help out at the grassroots level.
Helping others before helping yourself is pretty asinine. We have enough problems at home without trying to solve the worlds problems. Look at where it got the US in Iraq. Nowhere. Bush lied to the world (remember WMD?), made an illegal war and stuck the US in a quagmire.
Hows' your economy looking after spending a few hundred bucks in Iraq?
My comment about sending them (Iraq/Afghanistan) 1 Billion dollars was dead on. It's as effective as the war is now. Meaning absolutely useless.
quote:
Originally posted by Arikara1985
Helping people who can not help themselves is the whole point of being a Peace Keeper. When you are one of the richest countries in the world you should so something to help. I guarentee just about everyone killed in Iraq and Afghanistan believed in what they are doing.
I never got my legs blown off, but I was rendered immobile and hospitalized for nearly a year after being wounded by an IED. Hell I even gained 80lbs due to the incident (meds I was on + being unable to walk does hell to your physique). It ruined my career in the Marines, yet I still fully support the war and if I was able to I would gladly go back.
Saying we don't owe Afghanistan or any country for that matter anything is like saying we shouldn't help our poor, elderly and sick here. Just because their 15,000 miles away doesn't mean they don't need outside help. If we sent Afghanistan a billion dollars we'd just be supporting terrorism because they'll be the ones getting the money not the ones who need it.
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| ehos |
1. Just as useless as the war. At least it would be 1000x cheaper.
2. Help? You mean having a foreign country invade mine? Wow, are you ever delusional. Iraqi's and Afghani's hate our guts. They've never been defeated, and you think we're doing them a favour by invading them? :rolleyes:
3. If someone calls me a name or comes at me with an ad homenium attack, I'll do the same. I'll say it again, I don't want any Canadian soldiers to die.
If you want them to die, go ahead, keep supporting the war (a recent poll said most Canadians DON'T), then go ahead. Keep wanting our soldiers to die, very VERY patriotic of you! :rolleyes:
quote:
Originally posted by walkur1
1. Sending money to a corrupt government is the most ridiculous proposal I've ever heard. Would sending money to the death camps in WWII have helped? IMO, not at all.
2. We might not legally owe "them" anything, but I'm sure if the roles were reversed, you'd appreciate having some help from countries who are much more fortunate than yours.
3. Calling any man or woman who serves/has served in the military a "soldier boy/girl" is completely unacceptable and arrogant. There may come a day when disaster (natural or human) strikes close to home, and I know that when that day comes, I can rest somewhat more comfortably because I know that there are men and women out there who are willing to risk their lives to protect the country that we believe in. You have no idea what experiences these people will have or have been through.
All I know is, again, how grateful I am for people who have the courage to give their lives for others. You should show a little more respect... IMO.
:rolleyes: |
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| ehos |
Let me vote NDP? Wow, who's being smug now? You're going to give me the privilege of voting. :lol:
Even the media is saying the Iraq/Afghan war is lost and they were mistakes. See, eventually, everyone will come what I've been saying since Day 1 of Iraq.
I don't have to quote any 'left wing news' sites anymore. I can quote Reuters. It's mainstream now.
(By the way, you have your ideologies all confused, you can't even label them correctly). :lol:
quote:
Originally posted by Tech2
For you guys posting up with experience, insight, or at least something thoughtful to say don't worry about ehos, that's just his style. For all his "you got suckered by the media" talk, where did he get his info about american neo-con conspiracy shadow government Bush controls the world stuff? He might post up links like he's done in other threads, but they'll be to islamic conspiracy or real left wing "news" sites. US lost the military war in vietnam, we're in afghanistan for oil, islam began in peace... what was that about not believing everything you read/hear/see?
As for sending a billion dollars to those poor afghan farmers, cuz no one would steal it from them like in somalia, it's also right up ehos's philosophical alley, as you can read about in one of our many threads on giving money to bums.
So let him vote NDP. Him and the 2000 others who can enjoy their sense of smug.
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| Arikara1985 |
You keep stating the media as the source. The media said this, the media said that. The media is more fucking corrupt then the Government. All they want is higher ratings and to sell more papers, there for they make things look worse then they are. They NEVER spend time talking about what we have done to help the people there, only the things that have gone wrong.
Step outside and fucking experience life. Don't believe everything the magic box in your house tells you. Until you've been to either country (whether it be with military, volunteer work, etc.) you really don't have a fucking clue what is happening. Both countries are now better then they were before. Schools, hospitals, running water, and electricity which a lot of parts of those two countries never had before we got there. Women are no longer treated like animals and considered property (well there are still some extremely religious tribes but for the most part women are now able to do stuff they could never do in the past).
As for Iraqi's and Afghani's hating us. How many have YOU personally talked to who live/lived there during the war that have said they hate us? I've been there and have witnessed first hand what the average citizen in those countries feel about us. I was out on a patrol once when a man and women came up to us and thanked us, hugged us and were down right happy to see us. Once again, the media only shows what they want to show, and showing people who hate us will sell more papers then showing people who love us.
As for invading a country to free the people of said country, it's been done MANY times. WWII for example. Allied forces invaded France, Holland, etc. to free the people of those countries. Civilians were killed during the invasions but for the most part they were happy that we came to help. Yes there will be some who will hate us for it (look at how many French fought on the side of the Germans against Allied forces).
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
Canada isn't peacekeeping in Afghanistan. You are free to move to Afghanistan/Iraq and help out at the grassroots level.
Helping others before helping yourself is pretty asinine. We have enough problems at home without trying to solve the worlds problems. Look at where it got the US in Iraq. Nowhere. Bush lied to the world (remember WMD?), made an illegal war and stuck the US in a quagmire.
Hows' your economy looking after spending a few hundred bucks in Iraq?
My comment about sending them (Iraq/Afghanistan) 1 Billion dollars was dead on. It's as effective as the war is now. Meaning absolutely useless.
Once again, you believe what the media says without actually paying attention. Do you know what a WMD is? Do you know that chemical weapons are classed as a WMD? Guess what we fucking found? Tonnes of chemical weapons. Yes we never found a dirty bomb which everyone believed was there, but do you know how easy it would be to hide if they did have one? There are thousands of underground bunkers in the middle of the desert that we still don't even know about.
As for Canada not Peace Keeping in Afghanistan. In a sense we are. Just because we aren't taking up the typical role of a Peace Keeper in the past doesn't mean we aren't. We are there so that the people of those countries can live their lives somewhat decently without worrying that they are going to be killed for being Pro-West, a different religion or just by grocery shopping.
And no your comment about sending a billion dollars is not dead on. Do you think there would be new schools, hospitals, etc. built if we just sent money to the country without removing the people in power? |
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| Tech2 |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
I don't have to quote any 'left wing news' sites anymore. I can quote Reuters. It's mainstream now.
quote:
COMMUNIQUE: 14 July 2003
Study: Reuters Headlines
A one-month study of Reuters headlines reveals clear bias in Reuters' Mideast coverage.
http://www.honestreporting.com/arti...s_Headlines.asp
quote:
Reuters was accused of bias against Israel in its coverage of the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict, in which the company used two doctored photos by a Lebanese freelance photographer Adnan Hajj
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reuters#Critique
Tell me again about Reuters not being biased to the left? Feel free to insert BBC, AP, New York Times, whatever. Or call it right wing if you prefer, it's still inaccurate, biased reporting that comes from a long and colorful history of media power coinciding nicely with some comments like this:
"To say that we are mired in stalemate seems the only realistic, yet unsatisfactory, conclusion... But it is increasingly clear to this reporter that the only rational way out then will be to negotiate, not as victors, but as an honorable people who lived up to their pledge to defend democracy, and did the best they could."
Iraq? No, Walter Cronkite on the Tet offensive. Think any media bosses want those glory days to snatch media power back from a million independent bloggers? Think any young reporters want to follow in the footsteps of their professional mentors? Think it gives an accurate portrayal of events to have these experts in nothing but selling a story report on fighting when they can't tell the difference between a US soldier and a US marine, but expect us to believe they know the difference between an iraqi/afghan civillian and an al queda fighter in iraqi/afghan clothing?
If you like read up a little on the failure in Iraq from someone who went there. Goes something like this:
quote:
Conventional liberal opinion, more or less correct about the foundering American war effort from 2004 to 2006, has been severely bloodied—along with Iraq’s worst insurgent groups and militias—by General David Petraeus’s leadership of the American troop surge. Even post-9/11 fear of Islam has proven unsustainable for those who regularly interact with ordinary Iraqis.
That’s because it’s a country striving for normality, whose normal aspects rarely make their way into media reports that highlight violence, mayhem, and failure. On TV, Iraq looks like a nation of masked, gun-toting fanatics, but in person, one finds friendliness, solidarity, and reasonableness amid the chaos.
See Michael Yon and Michael Totten for stories gathered from outside the hotel bar.
Oh, and just for fun some Tet offensive losses. Who looks to have taken the worst of the fighting?
Losses during Tet Offensive
Country/Force Killed Wounded Missing
US, Korea, Australia 1,536 7,764 11
South Viet Nam 2,788 8,299 587
North Viet Nam and Viet Cong 45,000 not known not known
http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages...vietnam/tet.htm
What an amazing example of an asymmetrical military attack on democratic public perception through media. A great victory too. Careful, or we could have the same thing happen in Iraq or Afghanistan. They already got some folks in this thread.
But don't give ehos too hard a time. He wants to help Canadians, and that's cool. We should definitely work on that. Heck, without that open and helpful attitude most of us wouldn't even BE Canadians, ehos included I'm sure. |
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| Tech2 |
quote:
Originally posted by Arikara1985
As for Canada not Peace Keeping in Afghanistan. In a sense we are.
Do you think there would be new schools, hospitals, etc. built if we just sent money to the country without removing the people in power?
Don't forget that these AQ, tribal warlords, religious baddies working under the name taliban tend to kidnap, shoot, behead, and otherwise terrorize teachers (and parents, and kids) and blow up schools. Tough to work at building up a country when someone is tearing it right down again. Which is exactly the reason we need soldiers out there providing security, and taking out negativists when necessary.
Akikara, hope you're back isn't giving you much trouble. ;) |
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| Tech2 |
Now then, what was I saying about media bias?
But hey, don't take it from me, take it from the washington post ombudsman, and the Pew Center's Project for Excellence in Journalism.
quote:
The Post provided a lot of good campaign coverage, but readers have been consistently critical of the lack of probing issues coverage and what they saw as a tilt toward Democrat Barack Obama. My surveys, which ended on Election Day, show that they are right on both counts.
The op-ed page ran far more laudatory opinion pieces on Obama, 32, than on Sen. John McCain, 13. There were far more negative pieces (58) about McCain than there were about Obama (32), and Obama got the editorial board's endorsement.
But Obama deserved tougher scrutiny than he got, especially of his undergraduate years, his start in Chicago and his relationship with Antoin "Tony" Rezko, who was convicted this year of influence-peddling in Chicago. The Post did nothing on Obama's acknowledged drug use as a teenager.
The Post went over Palin with a fine-tooth comb and neglected Biden. They are right; it was a serious omission.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...8110702895.html
quote:
Press treatment of Obama has been somewhat more positive than negative, but not markedly so.
But coverage of McCain has been heavily unfavorable—and has become more so over time. In the six weeks following the conventions through the final debate, unfavorable stories about McCain outweighed favorable ones by a factor of more than three to one—the most unfavorable of all four candidates—according to the study by the Pew Research Center’s Project for Excellence in Journalism.
For Obama during this period, just over a third of the stories were clearly positive in tone (36%), while a similar number (35%) were neutral or mixed. A smaller number (29%) were negative.
For McCain, by comparison, nearly six in ten of the stories studied were decidedly negative in nature (57%), while fewer than two in ten (14%) were positive.
http://www.journalism.org/node/13307
At least they admit it. And we should all keep this serious left wing bias in mind when digesting media reports. |
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| supeg |
quote:
Originally posted by Invalid Zero
Sure can! Level that whole shit part of the world (what good is ever going to come from it?) and when hippies and other fundies start protesting in the west, arrest them all and gas them!
Haha this made me spit out my juice.
Leave that shithole. How the fuck are you going to fight a war against cavemen living in huts and caves? |
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| lust |
| im in the 1st batallion PPCLI and i wish Ottawa would get us out. the world should just wash their hands of thse terrorist nations. clearly there is no hope for this country and yet i am going there in 10 months. you hear of so many civilians being killed and most of the time its just stupidity on their part, convoys cleary display signs that say "stay back or BE KILLED" yet there are vehicles that roar up to them, we follow our ROE's and fire off warning shots that go unnoticed. 2 seconds later you have a car thats swiss cheese with a family thats dead. if someone appears to be a threat and comes speeding at my LAV)light armour vehicle) i wont hesitate taking their life in return of saving 10 of my friends, if they are dumb civiillians i will be able to handle that alot more than doin nothing and cleaning up my friends with a sponge... some of these are tactics by the insurgents for propaganda to make us look like baby killers and its quite effective. and i wouldnt say we are losing this war because were not fighting an army, were fighting an idea. the same farmer that welcomes you into his village with tea is the same fuckin guy planting ied's at night. thats where i stand anyways, its a very controversial war. |
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